Pirates: 20 straight years of losing seasons

[thomas35forever]

At least they have a bright future.

[Tragg]

Speaking of collapses...stunning, really.

[ComiskeyBrewer]

Have to feel for the Pittsburgh fans. With a 2nd straight 2nd half collapse, will the fans come out next year, even if the team plays well in the 1st half of the year?

Also, McCutchen obviously has had a breakout year(his OPS is currently .123 points above his previous career high), but will this be the outlier in his career, or will this be the new norm?

[34rancher]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

We could have had a park like Camden Yards and PNC Park but JR and Co. nixed it, instead we got 2 tiers of suites and a club level section that gave us the steepest upper deck in MLB. Comiskey II was just about the most sterile park ever built, operating rooms should be so sterile. At least JR saw the error of his ways and came up with a park that has a little more character but still no PNC Park.

As far as the Bucs go, I thought that this was the year that they would break that horrible streak.

Sorry, but that is false. He upper deck was not the steepest at that time and in fact was not even in the top 10. At that time Kauffman was the steepest. And Yankee stadium (original) was too. It was the steepest in Chicago at that time so people complained. Now it's number three with soldier field and the UC steeper. That was a myth by the tribune.

[Railsplitter]

Originally Posted by ComiskeyBrewer

Have to feel for the Pittsburgh fans. With a 2nd straight 2nd half collapse, will the fans come out next year, even if the team plays well in the 1st half of the year?

Agreed. That a team near the tope of standings near midseason can plunge below .500 is bad enogh, but to do it two years in a row is mind boggling.

[SOXSINCE'70]

Originally Posted by Hitmen77

Too bad. I was hoping that they'd finally have a winning season this year.

Having a record of 82-80 makes this a plus.500 season for the Bucs.
It's not much,but it's something.

Yes,it is difficult for both Pirate fans AND White Sox fans to swallow.
But,up until the last few weeks,this was a season to remember.

How quickly it turned into one i'd like to forget.

[Hitmen77]

Originally Posted by SOXSINCE'70

Having a record of 82-80 makes this a plus.500 season for the Bucs.
It's not much,but it's something.

Yes,it is difficult for both Pirate fans AND White Sox fans to swallow.
But,up until the last few weeks,this was a season to remember.

How quickly it turned into one i'd like to forget.

I thought they clinched finishing below .500 with their 82nd loss?

[Hitmen77]

Originally Posted by Railsplitter

Agreed. That a team near the tope of standings near midseason can plunge below .500 is bad enogh, but to do it two years in a row is mind boggling.

...and I wasn't even involved in those 2nd half collapses!

[downstairs]

Originally Posted by SOXSINCE'70

Having a record of 82-80 makes this a plus.500 season for the Bucs.
It's not much,but it's something.

Yes,it is difficult for both Pirate fans AND White Sox fans to swallow.
But,up until the last few weeks,this was a season to remember.

How quickly it turned into one i'd like to forget.

You mis-read my original post. Or maybe using the term "clinch" I made it confusing.

They lost their 82nd the night before I posted this. Meaning they "clinched" a losing season.

[PatK]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

We could have had a park like Camden Yards and PNC Park but JR and Co. nixed it, instead we got 2 tiers of suites and a club level section that gave us the steepest upper deck in MLB. Comiskey II was just about the most sterile park ever built, operating rooms should be so sterile. At least JR saw the error of his ways and came up with a park that has a little more character but still no PNC Park.

As far as the Bucs go, I thought that this was the year that they would break that horrible streak.

From what I remember, people wanted a state of the art "modern" facility. And that's what they got. The trend in stadium building at that time (not just MLB) was to have as modern of a looking place as possible.

It wasn't until Camden Yards opened that people realized that you could still have the look of an old school park with all of the modern amenities.

And then the crapping of New Comiskey began

[WhiteSox5187]

Originally Posted by PatK

From what I remember, people wanted a state of the art "modern" facility. And that's what they got. The trend in stadium building at that time (not just MLB) was to have as modern of a looking place as possible.

It wasn't until Camden Yards opened that people realized that you could still have the look of an old school park with all of the modern amenities.

And then the crapping of New Comiskey began

Which was one year after Comiskey opened. In Richard Roeper's book "Sox and the City" he quoted the Tribune's Architecture Critic who even said that as soon as Camden Yards opened up in 1992 New Comiskey would be considered obsolete.

[PatK]

Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187

Which was one year after Comiskey opened. In Richard Roeper's book "Sox and the City" he quoted the Tribune's Architecture Critic who even said that as soon as Camden Yards opened up in 1992 New Comiskey would be considered obsolete.

I'm not disputing anything, it's just that when it first opened, i don't recall anyone saying anything about it being bland and sterile.

That didn't happen until the "retro" parks opened the next few seasons (Camden Yards and Jacob's Field)

[SI1020]

Originally Posted by PatK

I'm not disputing anything, it's just that when it first opened, i don't recall anyone saying anything about it being bland and sterile.

That didn't happen until the "retro" parks opened the next few seasons (Camden Yards and Jacob's Field)

I can tell you that for years many fans complained about the sterility of the generic footbowl stadiums like those in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and St. Louis. Baseball was more than ready for the retro park and Sox management as usual blew it. It takes years from conception, to ground breaking to completion. The Orioles were ready and the Sox weren't.

[LITTLE NELL]

Originally Posted by PatK

From what I remthe art "modern" facility.ember, people wanted a state of And that's what they got. The trend in stadium building at that time (not just MLB) was to have as modern of a looking place as possible.

Originally Posted by PatK

It wasn't until Camden Yards opened that people realized that you could still have the look of an old school park with all of the modern amenities.

And then the crapping of New Comiskey began

What people? I will bet that if you took a poll at the time that most Sox fans would have preferred some kind of renovation of old Comiskey instead of a new park. I'll never forget going to a game at the old park in early 1990 and the new park's shell was up on 35th street and I could not believe what I saw, the new park was twice as high as old Comiskey, I scratched my head thinking what is this place going to look like when its done.

[Nellie_Fox]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

[B][I]

What people? I will bet that if you took a poll at the time that most Sox fans would have preferred some kind of renovation of old Comiskey instead of a new park. I'll never forget going to a game at the old park in early 1990 and the new park's shell was up on 35th street and I could not believe what I saw, the new park was twice as high as old Comiskey, I scratched my head thinking what is this place going to look like when its done.

It would have taken massive renovation. I remember being in seats where I had to sit scrunched in turned partly sideways because my knees wouldn't fit behind the seat in front of me, and I'm not freakishly tall, just 6'3", I remember being behind pillars that blocked my view of essential parts of the field. I remember being back under the upper deck far enough that my view of the scoreboard was blocked. The food areas were dark, damp, and smelly. Left field was a swamp after heavy rains.

They had no place to play during a renovation; it wasn't like New York, where Shea was publicly-owned and the Yankees didn't have to have the permission of the Mets to play there while Yankee Stadium was renovated. The Cubs said "no" to the Sox playing at Wrigley during any renovation. Should they have gone to Thillens Stadium? Soldier Field?