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  #121  
Old 05-04-2012, 09:48 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by kevingrt View Post
Might as well trade Sale like we traded Santos because just like you said a closer for a rebuilding team is completely worthless. Today is so frustrating I cannot even bring to words how angry I am. And I would not just blame Kenny for this but the whole scouting department in general and a little on Cooper. You have to know going into drafting this kid that his arm slot, delivery, etc. are not conducive in the long-term to starting for this team into his 30's. Thus why are you using a top 20 pick on him? So frustrating.
The upside was worth the risk. He was a 13th overall pick, right? If you can grab a kid who might be an ace at 13, you take the chance.
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Originally Posted by shoota
I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #122  
Old 05-04-2012, 09:53 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Considering the Sox attendance woes, someone fetching their salaries I bet would suit their fancy.
No disagreement here. Neither of those two pitchers is worth the salary they are making.
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  #123  
Old 05-04-2012, 09:56 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
The upside was worth the risk. He was a 13th overall pick, right? If you can grab a kid who might be an ace at 13, you take the chance.
Yup.
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  #124  
Old 05-04-2012, 10:10 PM
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asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
This is yet another Sox move for some perceived short term game, at long term cost.
He pitches 3-4 times as many innings as starter v closer, starters are worth far more (see Danks' contract v. a closer's contract). People were saying he could be a dominant starter...so we want him pitching 1 inning very other game.

So to avoid Reed as closer, we have Axlerod as starter.
All closer is now is 1 inning out of 9. You just need a capable pitcher with some stones. The closer rarely has to get you out of jams, unless he pitches into his own jams. This is similar to Williams' trades the last 5 years....short-sighted.
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
If true then Kenny screwed up. They drafted him as a starter. Instead, they'll end up with a closer who will be no less injury prone...a closer for a "rebuilding" team I might add. An absolute waste. For every Hoffman or Riviera there are a 100 closers with a few good years and then they vanish. And from the sound of it, Sale isn't happy about it. Good luck with that. Typical move for an organization that literally makes it up as they go along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevingrt View Post
Might as well trade Sale like we traded Santos because just like you said a closer for a rebuilding team is completely worthless. Today is so frustrating I cannot even bring to words how angry I am. And I would not just blame Kenny for this but the whole scouting department in general and a little on Cooper. You have to know going into drafting this kid that his arm slot, delivery, etc. are not conducive in the long-term to starting for this team into his 30's. Thus why are you using a top 20 pick on him? So frustrating.
See below.

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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
I love how so little information has yielded so many diagnoses from people who have not talked with anyone involved in the decision or have seen any medical records regarding the condition.
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  #125  
Old 05-04-2012, 10:58 PM
HaroMaster87 HaroMaster87 is offline
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And has anyone mentioned that axelrod is bad?? Yuck, reminds me of how they kept trying to cram Dan Wright down our throats year after year...
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  #126  
Old 05-04-2012, 11:02 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevingrt View Post
Might as well trade Sale like we traded Santos because just like you said a closer for a rebuilding team is completely worthless. Today is so frustrating I cannot even bring to words how angry I am. And I would not just blame Kenny for this but the whole scouting department in general and a little on Cooper. You have to know going into drafting this kid that his arm slot, delivery, etc. are not conducive in the long-term to starting for this team into his 30's. Thus why are you using a top 20 pick on him? So frustrating.
How dare the Sox' scouts, etc. think this Sale would have worked out with that crazy-ass delivery? After all, he'd been doing for years without injury.......
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  #127  
Old 05-04-2012, 11:02 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,3638732.story

Lip
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  #128  
Old 05-04-2012, 11:27 PM
Parrothead Parrothead is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
How dare the Sox' scouts, etc. think this Sale would have worked out with that crazy-ass delivery? After all, he'd been doing for years without injury.......
Teal intended ? I hope so, 'cause take a look below...the Sox Scouts don't know a damn thing about baseball.

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Originally Posted by Parrothead View Post
After reading this thread I decided to look at the Sox 1st picks in the 1st round pick. Holy crap it is a record of major suckage. Hopefully the new regime can do better than this.....

2010 Chris Sale
2009 Jared Mitchell
2008 Gordon Beckham
2007 Aaron Poreda
2006 Kyle McCulloch
2005 Lance Broadway
2004 Josh Fields
2003 Brian Anderson
2002 Royce Ring
2001 Kris Honel
2000 Joe Borchard
1999 Jason Stumm
1998 Kip Wells
1997 Jason Dellaero
1996 Bobby Seay
1995 Jeff Liefer
1994 Mark Johnson
1993 Scott Christman
1992 Eddie Pearson
1991 Scott Ruffcorn
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  #129  
Old 05-04-2012, 11:44 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Well, you can't say we don't have a need for a closer.

That's three of these already this year in only 26 games. Hopefully, Chris is healthy and he settles things down at the back end of this bullpen.
Anybody who watched the Sox last year knew that Thornton's a miserable closer.
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  #130  
Old 05-05-2012, 12:06 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Its tough being a Sox fan, I still pinch myself daily to make sure 2005 was not a dream.
You're old enough to know that this is what being a Sox fan is about.
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  #131  
Old 05-05-2012, 12:33 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Kenny's throw crap together worked once and has failed every time since. Much like last year ending in Ozzie's departure was a positive outcome, KW being gone after this one will make it worthwhile.
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  #132  
Old 05-05-2012, 12:51 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Who's the manager, Ventura or Cooper? Just checkin'.

This Sale news is a major setback for the organization.

The organization is on the edge of serious trouble regarding poor attendance, weak prospects and a bleak future.
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  #133  
Old 05-05-2012, 12:58 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Who's the manager, Ventura or Cooper? Just checkin'.

This Sale news is a major setback for the organization.

The organization is on the edge of serious trouble regarding poor attendance, weak prospects and a bleak future.
Why would a manager, especially a rookie manager who was not a pitcher, not listen to his pitching coach? I'm sure he has the final say, but if his coaches have no input, that's not good at all.
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  #134  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:52 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
Why would a manager, especially a rookie manager who was not a pitcher, not listen to his pitching coach? I'm sure he has the final say, but if his coaches have no input, that's not good at all.
Seriously. Cooper is widely regarded as one of, if not the best pitching coaches in baseball now that Dave Duncan has moved on to other things. It would be downright insane for Ventura not to listen to him.

, people
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  #135  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:54 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
The upside was worth the risk. He was a 13th overall pick, right? If you can grab a kid who might be an ace at 13, you take the chance.
Perfectly stated. If there was less concern with him starting, he wouldn't have been available at 13. People bitch when the Sox pick conservatively and end up with Josh Fields. They bitch when the Sox gamble on a high risk/high reward guy like Sale. I'm sorry to inform everyone that probably 90% of prospects never live up to their hype, no matter what you do. Baseball is not easy.
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