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  #76  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:02 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
It seems like a sport to savage every ex Sox player on this site. All things considered Mark Buehrle was a model of stamina and consistency. He had a bad first half in 2003 and then rebounded nicely. He had decidedly down years in 2006 and 2010. Other than that he was consistently good. Even in the down years, giving the team 200+ innings. His lifetime ERA+ is a healthy 120 and in only one year did it dip below 100. In White Sox history he's 7th all time in pitching WAR and 6th in wins. Among left handers only Billy Pierce and Doc White might be considered superior to him. I'm not questioning the Sox decision to let him go, just some of the criticism on this thread. Since the Reinsdorf group bought the team who has been better on the mound for the Sox than Mark Buehrle? Others have had better individual years to be sure, but career wise who has been better?
It seems like a sport to savage every current Sox player, coach and front office person. I love Mark Buehrle, but I'm not going to disparage John Danks because the Sox chose him.

Danks record is irrelevant considering he's had notoriously poor run support. He needs to grow as a pitcher though. Resigning him was a good move then, and its a good move now IMO.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #77  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:07 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Is it because you see Buehrle declining, or Danks finally filling his potential?
I know this post isn't directed towards me, but I expect the Sox to start competing in 2014. MB will be 35 and Danks will be 28. Combine the age with Danks upside and it's a no brainer.
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  #78  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:10 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
I know this post isn't directed towards me, but I expect the Sox to start competing in 2014. MB will be 35 and Danks will be 28. Combine the age with Danks upside and it's a no brainer.
Thanks for saving me an answer! I agree.
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  #79  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:15 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
I know this post isn't directed towards me, but I expect the Sox to start competing in 2014. MB will be 35 and Danks will be 28. Combine the age with Danks upside and it's a no brainer.
As a soft-tossing lefty, I think Buehrle will be fine for years.
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  #80  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:49 PM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
As a soft-tossing lefty, I think Buehrle will be fine for years.
Yeah, if Mark wants to, I see now reason he can't be just as effective into his forties.

And for those who are trying to manufacture a marked decline in Mark Buehrle's performance, the numbers just don't back you up. His relevant numbers are practically identical every year, save one.

I like John Danks, and I hope he turns it around, but he is no Mark Buehrle.
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  #81  
Old 05-16-2012, 10:59 PM
Parrothead Parrothead is offline
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Originally Posted by sox1970 View Post
Danks will make 14.25/yr. 2013-2016.
According to Cot's Contracts website he is making 15.75 mil thru 2016

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...EE&output=html
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  #82  
Old 05-17-2012, 07:40 AM
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asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by sullythered View Post
Yeah, if Mark wants to, I see now reason he can't be just as effective into his forties.

And for those who are trying to manufacture a marked decline in Mark Buehrle's performance, the numbers just don't back you up. His relevant numbers are practically identical every year, save one.

I like John Danks, and I hope he turns it around, but he is no Mark Buehrle.
The ERA+ totals for each pitcher since 2007:

Danks
86-rookie year
138
124
115
98
65

Buehrle
130
121
122
100
118
123
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  #83  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:17 AM
FoulTerritory FoulTerritory is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

I know this post isn't directed towards me, but I expect the Sox to start competing in 2014. MB will be 35 and Danks will be 28. Combine the age with Danks upside and it's a no brainer.
The only problem is that regardless of age, danks isn't a good pitcher anymore. He has lost FB velocity and thus also minimslized the effectiveness of his changeup.
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  #84  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:20 AM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
The ERA+ totals for each pitcher since 2007:

Danks
86-rookie year
138
124
115
98
65

Buehrle
130
121
122
100
118
123
So, Danks has been below league average three times in the last six seasons, whereas Buehrle has been below league average no times.
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  #85  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:55 AM
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asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by sullythered View Post
So, Danks has been below league average three times in the last six seasons, whereas Buehrle has been below league average no times.
Yes.
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  #86  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:58 AM
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asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by sullythered View Post
So, Danks has been below league average three times in the last six seasons, whereas Buehrle has been below league average no times.
By the way, the only time Buehrle has had a better ERA+ than Danks is in Danks rookie season and last season, in case you hadn't noticed. (This season is still ongoing, so it would seem premature to count it at this point.)
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  #87  
Old 05-17-2012, 10:28 AM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
By the way, the only time Buehrle has had a better ERA+ than Danks is in Danks rookie season and last season, in case you hadn't noticed. (This season is still ongoing, so it would seem premature to count it at this point.)
My initial point was that Buehrle's value lies in his consistency and his durability. These numbers argue my point for me.
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  #88  
Old 05-17-2012, 11:26 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is online now
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
The ERA+ totals for each pitcher since 2007:

Danks
86-rookie year
138
124
115
98
65

Buehrle
130
121
122
100
118
123
Thanks for posting this. Like I said, I don't criticize the Sox for letting Buehrle go. I do think that Danks was and is a big risk. You can talk all you want about his age, but the man peaked in 08 and it's all downhill since then.
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  #89  
Old 05-17-2012, 11:52 PM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
By the way, the only time Buehrle has had a better ERA+ than Danks is in Danks rookie season and last season, in case you hadn't noticed. (This season is still ongoing, so it would seem premature to count it at this point.)
This is true, but Danks has been on a downward slide since 2008. If you weren't looking at Danks and Buehrle, but Pitcher 1 and Pitcher 2 based on stats alone nobody is going to rank Pitcher 1 over Pitcher 2.

Of course they aren't Pitcher 1 and Pitcher 2 they are a 27 year old and a 33 year old. Buehrle has a chance of putting on a great year if everything goes right, especially in the NL, but he has already peaked. Danks is young and still has time to turn his career around. I hope he does, but I've been disappointed in him since 2010.

I think the NL is good for Mark, though. After a few seasons in the NL I think you'll see more asterisks in his similar pitchers than you would if he stayed in the AL.
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