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  #46  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:24 AM
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asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
You know I was watching the game last night and thinking "I've seen this before many times." Of course it is possible that Tommy Milone is starting out on what will be a memorable career. The A's have a history of developing good pitchers. It doesn't lessen one whit the frustration that some of us feel watching this rerun time after time, year after year. Oakland's version of Nick Punto in the 8th inning didn't help either. All of this doesn't mean the season is lost, or Robin is a terrible manager, or the Sox won't ever hit a soft tossing lefty they never saw before. If you've been with the Sox through thick and thin you should be allowed to occasionally wear your Sox heart on your sleeve, maybe even whine a little. I think here the criticism is based on personal animus as much as it is a matter of a different opinion. Accusing someone of "whining" is often a way of saying your opinion is unworthy and I don't like you.
Well, considering that the fans of at least 29 other MLB teams have seen that many times before as well, it might help to keep it all in perspective.
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  #47  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:00 AM
TheOldRoman TheOldRoman is offline
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Originally Posted by KMcMahon817 View Post
Relax, Bro. Awfully negative for a 10-7 start.
Are you unfamiliar with this Lip fellow?
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  #48  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:37 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
You know I was watching the game last night and thinking "I've seen this before many times." Of course it is possible that Tommy Milone is starting out on what will be a memorable career. The A's have a history of developing good pitchers. It doesn't lessen one whit the frustration that some of us feel watching this rerun time after time, year after year. Oakland's version of Nick Punto in the 8th inning didn't help either. All of this doesn't mean the season is lost, or Robin is a terrible manager, or the Sox won't ever hit a soft tossing lefty they never saw before. If you've been with the Sox through thick and thin you should be allowed to occasionally wear your Sox heart on your sleeve, maybe even whine a little. I think here the criticism is based on personal animus as much as it is a matter of a different opinion. Accusing someone of "whining" is often a way of saying your opinion is unworthy and I don't like you.
This "not being able to hit pitchers we've never seen" has been a Lip crusade for years. Here's the thing, we've gone through 3 different coaching staffs and dozens of different hitters. Maybe, just maybe, it's not a White Sox problem. Maybe every team struggles against pitchers they've never seen. The other issue is that it's pretty bush league to not give some credit to a very good, young starting pitcher. The kid's not a no name. People who follow baseball know about this kid. He's a good prospect who projects to be a solid 3, or maybe even 2.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #49  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:41 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by soltrain21 View Post
You need to learn the difference between a 'no name' pitcher and a pitcher who is very good and you've just never heard of them.
Amen. Just because people choose not to read up on rookie studs doesn't mean those studs aren't good pitchers.

Some people here would have a hard time picking a ROY winner every year, as they would all hit .200 or have ERAs above 6.
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  #50  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:42 AM
hawkjt hawkjt is offline
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Watching every pitch of that game, I honestly feel like Milone only missed his spot a couple of times the whole game. The changeup to Morel was up and in the middle of the plate...and that was about it.
The way the ump set up inside,and the catcher was set up inside, and his pitches angled across that inside corner time after time....as Hawk says,you can make your own strike zone,so maybe our guys should have backed off the plate and made him try to hit the outside corner instead.
That inside fastball was unhittable for righthanded hitters.

DeAza made the best contact of anyone really,as a lefty. Another Hawk theory is loading the team up with the leftys against a guy like this..worth a try?

It is one of the great mysteries of baseball to me that soft tossing leftys like Moyer,Buehrle,Bruce Chen,Tommy John ect.. can be effective seemingly forever. Now, Johnny Danks has yet to slow down enough to truly be effective,I guess. Great option to have later in his career tho.

Some Sox fans think that the Sox are particularly vulnerable to these guys,but I think most teams struggle similarly against these guys.
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  #51  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:43 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
You know I was watching the game last night and thinking "I've seen this before many times." Of course it is possible that Tommy Milone is starting out on what will be a memorable career. The A's have a history of developing good pitchers. It doesn't lessen one whit the frustration that some of us feel watching this rerun time after time, year after year. Oakland's version of Nick Punto in the 8th inning didn't help either. All of this doesn't mean the season is lost, or Robin is a terrible manager, or the Sox won't ever hit a soft tossing lefty they never saw before. If you've been with the Sox through thick and thin you should be allowed to occasionally wear your Sox heart on your sleeve, maybe even whine a little. I think here the criticism is based on personal animus as much as it is a matter of a different opinion. Accusing someone of "whining" is often a way of saying your opinion is unworthy and I don't like you.
In this particular case, Lip appears to be simply uninformed.
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  #52  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:12 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
You know I was watching the game last night and thinking "I've seen this before many times." Of course it is possible that Tommy Milone is starting out on what will be a memorable career. The A's have a history of developing good pitchers. It doesn't lessen one whit the frustration that some of us feel watching this rerun time after time, year after year. Oakland's version of Nick Punto in the 8th inning didn't help either. All of this doesn't mean the season is lost, or Robin is a terrible manager, or the Sox won't ever hit a soft tossing lefty they never saw before. If you've been with the Sox through thick and thin you should be allowed to occasionally wear your Sox heart on your sleeve, maybe even whine a little. I think here the criticism is based on personal animus as much as it is a matter of a different opinion. Accusing someone of "whining" is often a way of saying your opinion is unworthy and I don't like you.
This talk about a soft tossing lefty has me thinking how the Sox would do against Mark Buerhle. Could be Mark's 2nd perfect game.
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  #53  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:24 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Amen. Just because people choose not to read up on rookie studs doesn't mean those studs aren't good pitchers.

Some people here would have a hard time picking a ROY winner every year, as they would all hit .200 or have ERAs above 6.
I can appreciate that this guy appears to be a highly rated young pitcher who has learned to do very well with limited stuff (he pitched a great game against us and evidently held the Yankees in check) but at the same time I can understand Lip and other fans' angst over being shut down by this type of pitcher as well. The Sox have had a history over the past few years of being shut down by soft tossing lefties whether they are highly regarded prospects or middling veterans with an ERA over 5. So I do understand the sort of "Oh no, here we go again!" feeling. I for one didn't know who the hell this guy was until last night after the game so I don't mind SOME hand wringing, but as Frater pointed out earlier the real test will come when we face the Bruce Chens of the world. I know we are tired of the phrase "tip your cap" but that's about all the Sox could do last night. Whether this is a trend like last year and years previous has yet to be determined. So I don't mind tipping my cap while ringing my hands a little.
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  #54  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:26 PM
KMcMahon817 KMcMahon817 is offline
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Originally Posted by TheOldRoman View Post
Are you unfamiliar with this Lip fellow?
His shtick has wore thin.
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  #55  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:31 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I can appreciate that this guy appears to be a highly rated young pitcher who has learned to do very well with limited stuff (he pitched a great game against us and evidently held the Yankees in check) but at the same time I can understand Lip and other fans' angst over being shut down by this type of pitcher as well. The Sox have had a history over the past few years of being shut down by soft tossing lefties whether they are highly regarded prospects or middling veterans with an ERA over 5. So I do understand the sort of "Oh no, here we go again!" feeling. I for one didn't know who the hell this guy was until last night after the game so I don't mind SOME hand wringing, but as Frater pointed out earlier the real test will come when we face the Bruce Chens of the world. I know we are tired of the phrase "tip your cap" but that's about all the Sox could do last night. Whether this is a trend like last year and years previous has yet to be determined. So I don't mind tipping my cap while ringing my hands a little.
I feel a lot worse about losing to Bruce freakin' Chen than I do Milone, but I get it.
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  #56  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:44 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I feel a lot worse about losing to Bruce freakin' Chen than I do Milone, but I get it.
I am probably not going to get too upset about losing to anybody this year. If we keep getting shut down by the Bruce Chens of the world then I would think that that is indicative of a problem with the on-field personnel rather than the coaching staff. To me 2012 is going to be about finding out whether the problems of the last few years was with the coaching staff not being able to get the most out of their roster or with the front office collecting an ensemble of players who were not as talented as originally thought. And hopefully we can win a few games as well.
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  #57  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:05 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I hate to say it, but the As pitcher looked like MB out there.
This wasn't just a case of too anxious on a soft tosser...he was good.
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  #58  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:41 PM
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Under the old regime I thought maybe it was the advance scouting of these unknown pitchers and the approach given by the hitting coach. Now I wonder if this is not the case but is a technology issue. I remember a thread back when that the Sox do not use up to date technology to give the instructors and players the info needed to be prepared for these situations. Is it possible the Sox organization is cutting corners in this area?
The Sox had never faced that Noesi guy before, but they pounded him Friday night. I don't think they had seen Beavan before either, but they did all right against him.

I don't know that there's necessarily a problem here. The Sox are 2-1 against "unknown" pitchers on this road trip. Maybe they just got schooled by a rookie who was on top of his game last night.
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  #59  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:56 PM
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The Sox had never faced that Noesi guy before, but they pounded him Friday night. I don't think they had seen Beavan before either, but they did all right against him.

I don't know that there's necessarily a problem here. The Sox are 2-1 against "unknown" pitchers on this road trip. Maybe they just got schooled by a rookie who was on top of his game last night.
Yeah but that disproves the crybaby whining, especially if you note that the Sox also beat Adam Wilk and Josh Tomlin this season, as well, guys they had never seen before. 4-2 this year against newbs.
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  #60  
Old 04-25-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
...

And Wednesday another 'no-name' the Sox have never seen before goes for the A's AND he's making his major league debut to boot. ...
Noesi and Beavan were no-name starters that the White Sox beat on this roadtrip.

Today's no-name starter is not only a highly regarded prosepct making his much-anticipated major league debut in a pitcher's park (it usually plays bigger in the daytime, but today it looks like the air will be heavier with at least the threat of rain), but he is said to be especially excited about today's matchup because he grew up a White Sox fan.
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