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  #121  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:32 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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Actually being able to play a position helps.
Just because he plays the position poorly, isn't a good enough reason to leave him down.
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  #122  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:33 PM
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Just because he plays the position poorly, isn't a good enough reason to leave him down.

You can't be serious.
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  #123  
Old 07-07-2011, 08:23 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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You can't be serious.
No, you can't be serious.
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  #124  
Old 07-07-2011, 08:41 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Daver, I understand that a bandbox ballpark would inflate home run numbers, but wouldn't it also deflate batting averages and doubles, since there are smaller gaps into which fly balls and liners can fall?

Viciedo is hitting both for good power and high average. And he's improved his walk rate. So all signs point to him being able to hit well at the MLB level, albeit likely after a period of adjustment.

I'm not going to argue on his fielding, because it seems the consensus is that he's below average.
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  #125  
Old 07-07-2011, 08:48 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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I seriously wonder if Kenny is looking to trade him in a go for broke must win this year move. Someone who knows the organization better than I alluded that Dayan might be on the block.
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  #126  
Old 07-07-2011, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Daver, I understand that a bandbox ballpark would inflate home run numbers, but wouldn't it also deflate batting averages and doubles, since there are smaller gaps into which fly balls and liners can fall?

Viciedo is hitting both for good power and high average. And he's improved his walk rate. So all signs point to him being able to hit well at the MLB level, albeit likely after a period of adjustment.

I'm not going to argue on his fielding, because it seems the consensus is that he's below average.

What are lineouts in most parks bounce off the walls in Charlotte.

The best hitter in any lineup is usually walked quite a bit, even if not intentionally, it is not a real indicator of plate discipline. There are all kinds of players that could hit well at every level of the minors, see a host of former recent White Sox first round draft picks.

His trade value is maximized with him playing in Charlotte as opposed to learning how to play in Birmingham, and he really has no place on a roster that has three players with a track record of hitting at the MLB level already to play DH.

Even if the Sox were to go the rebuilding route, he is not a player that you can build around, you build around players that can make the players around them better.
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  #127  
Old 07-07-2011, 09:47 PM
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You can't be serious.
Yeah, the Sox should have kept the Big Hurt in Birmingham until he became a Gold Glove 1st baseman!
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  #128  
Old 07-07-2011, 10:34 PM
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Yeah, the Sox should have kept the Big Hurt in Birmingham until he became a Gold Glove 1st baseman!
Yeah, because putting up offensive numbers in a cow pasture is no different than a bandbox, against better pitching, and first base is almost identical to playing left field.


We'll overlook the fact that Dayan failed at playing first base.
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  #129  
Old 07-07-2011, 10:39 PM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is offline
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If only there was some position in the American League that allows you to only hit. I think the manager designates someone for that position. I got nothing.
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  #130  
Old 07-07-2011, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
I seriously wonder if Kenny is looking to trade him in a go for broke must win this year move. Someone who knows the organization better than I alluded that Dayan might be on the block.
Or to package him in order to dump a salary, Rios or Dunn.
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  #131  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:27 AM
CWSpalehoseCWS CWSpalehoseCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by Daver View Post
Yeah, because putting up offensive numbers in a cow pasture is no different than a bandbox, against better pitching, and first base is almost identical to playing left field.


We'll overlook the fact that Dayan failed at playing first base.
I don't think Dayan failed at 1B. He failed at 3B. But moving away from 1B was because Konerko and Dunn are higher on the depth chart and are locked in for the next 3+ years. I wouldn't be surprised at all after there gone and if Dayan is still on the Sox that he get moved back to 1B.
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  #132  
Old 07-08-2011, 07:50 AM
cws05champ cws05champ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver View Post
What are lineouts in most parks bounce off the walls in Charlotte.

The best hitter in any lineup is usually walked quite a bit, even if not intentionally, it is not a real indicator of plate discipline. There are all kinds of players that could hit well at every level of the minors, see a host of former recent White Sox first round draft picks.
Dayan is hitting .343 with 7 of his 16 HR on the road. His SLG % is 22 points higher on the road, his avg is 37 points higher and his OPS is 70 points higher on the road. So how is Charlotte helping him again?

I agree that he is not a good defender, and will never be one. But we are talking about this year when the sox are "All In". They need another bat in the lineup that can produce. Pierre has been bad for most of the year until recently, Dunn has been worse than awful and Quentin and Pierre are not great defenders in the OF anyways. I don't think you'd lose that much playing Dayan over one of those guys.

Is your argument that the Sox should keep his trade value up for a trade to help the team this year or trade for other prospects they can build around in the future? I just don't have any confidence in the current regime to make a trade in either scenario that helps us long term based off KW recent track record.
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  #133  
Old 07-08-2011, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver View Post
Yeah, because putting up offensive numbers in a cow pasture is no different than a bandbox, against better pitching, and first base is almost identical to playing left field.


We'll overlook the fact that Dayan failed at playing first base.
Man, it's going to be awfully embarrassing when someone takes that 15 seconds out of their day to check Dayan's home/road splits to see if he's actually mashing in Charlotte and struggling elsewhere, as you seem to believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws05champ View Post
Dayan is hitting .343 with 7 of his 16 HR on the road. His SLG % is 22 points higher on the road, his avg is 37 points higher and his OPS is 70 points higher on the road. So how is Charlotte helping him again?
You keep beating that drum, Daver. I think we all know the make or break characteristic of championship teams is the defensive quality of their corner outfielders.
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  #134  
Old 07-08-2011, 08:46 AM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver View Post
Yeah, because putting up offensive numbers in a cow pasture is no different than a bandbox, against better pitching, and first base is almost identical to playing left field.


We'll overlook the fact that Dayan failed at playing first base.
Man, it's going to be awfully embarrassing when someone takes that 15 seconds out of their day to check Dayan's home/road splits to see if he's actually mashing in Charlotte and struggling elsewhere, as you seem to believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws05champ View Post
Dayan is hitting .343 with 7 of his 16 HR on the road. His SLG % is 22 points higher on the road, his avg is 37 points higher and his OPS is 70 points higher on the road. So how is Charlotte helping him again?
You keep beating that drum, Daver. I think we all know the make or break characteristic of championship teams is the defensive quality of their corner outfielders.
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  #135  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:44 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSpalehoseCWS View Post
I don't think Dayan failed at 1B. He failed at 3B. But moving away from 1B was because Konerko and Dunn are higher on the depth chart and are locked in for the next 3+ years. I wouldn't be surprised at all after there gone and if Dayan is still on the Sox that he get moved back to 1B.
I also thought his best shot was at 1st. He was beyond bad at 3rd, and a real adventure so far in the OF. At 1st he looked like he might eventually be passable. Like you said with Konerko and Dunn there was no room.
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