White Sox Interactive Forums
Minor Observations

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Minor Observations
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 09-05-2010, 11:41 PM
Pablo_Honey Pablo_Honey is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 965
Default

Since it is rather obvious that he will follow down the path of Josh Fields and Brian Anderson, why don't we just convert him to pitcher? I hear he's got a good arm.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-06-2010, 08:20 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAsoxfan View Post
I love how certain fans are writing off a 21 year old kid b/c he doesn't have plate discipline. Plate discipline can be developed (I'm not saying he will, but stating he won't like it's a fact is asinine.)
I am not sure we are writing him off. But he has terrible not poor plate discipline for a AAA player. He is also a below average AAA fielder. He is a good AAA DH. So to project him to a ML player, even at 21, is a real stretch right now.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-06-2010, 08:36 AM
DumpJerry's Avatar
DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
Tom Feargal Hagen
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The hearts and minds of Sox fans on 10-26-05
Posts: 25,753
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo_Honey View Post
Since it is rather obvious that he will follow down the path of Josh Fields and Brian Anderson, why don't we just convert him to pitcher? I hear he's got a good arm.
He was a pitcher in Cuba (out of the Bullpen) .



He did not walk anyone.
__________________

All hail The Rick
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-06-2010, 10:38 AM
Zisk77 Zisk77 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edwardsville Il
Posts: 1,723
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver View Post
You can teach players to hit a breaking ball too, yet the Sox have failed miserably in accomplishing that for quite awhile now.
Your right so lets not even try. No point working on defense either. Lets DFA him.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-06-2010, 10:59 AM
Daver's Avatar
Daver Daver is offline
The Grand Wazoo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Suburbs
Posts: 26,632
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zisk77 View Post
Your right so lets not even try. No point working on defense either. Lets DFA him.
I didn't say stop trying, though I would have little optimism for improvement considering the track record for players with similar problems in recent history.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-06-2010, 11:15 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 13,423
Default

I'm trying to figure out why we're so pessimistic. Kid is a .276 hitter without walking. That means he knows how to make contact. Someone will teach him discipline, and then he can explode as a hitter.

In a full season you can slot him in with a 35 home runs- that's pretty damn good.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRy33ukckCs

it's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you.

http://arsenalist.com/video/?id=xh2dx6

Greatest Arsenal goal I have ever witnessed. Chills to this day watching it.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-06-2010, 11:25 AM
Rdy2PlayBall Rdy2PlayBall is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,396
Default

I know this is cherry picking stats, but he's only been in the minors for 2 years, and this year has been a bit of change for him because of the stint in the majors and all... but...

Viciedo 2009 at-bats/walks.... 504/23 ~ 21.9
Alexei's 2010 at-bats/walks.... 495/21 ~ 23.6

OBVIOUSLY, they are different players, and I am not saying it's ok how Alexei walks so little... but as we have all seen, Alexei is a decent offensive player, and has consistently shown for the past 3 years that he can be effective at the major league level. Just last year, Alexei had 49 walks. He obviously was trying to walk more in 2009, and I would assume he got help from somebody, somewhere. The difference between these two players? Viciedo isn't very good at defense, but he is also a very powerful hitter.

Any power hitter is going to get more garbage than a slappy hitter, especially when he already hit the cover off a ball during a game or series. He is young enough to learn to lay of breaking stuff, and he has already shown he can hit major league hitting. I think, given an offseason and maybe a half-a-year, he can learn to lay of the breaking stuff, which will result in more walks as well. I don't think it will happen automatically, but he's going to need to work with somebody, hopefully his focus from now on is hitting, and not 3B.

He is progressing no where near as fast as I thought he would, but he is still VERY young (21), and if it takes until he is 23-24 to come up and bat .280 with just a .335 OBP, but still hit the cover off the ball, I don't think he will be a bust. He's making a lot of money, but any time now, something could snap and we could have an All-Star ready to come out of our system. I'm not giving up hope like many people here seem to be, his problems are minor tweeks, it's not like we're talking about somebody who just flat-out can't hit.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-06-2010, 11:30 AM
Daver's Avatar
Daver Daver is offline
The Grand Wazoo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Suburbs
Posts: 26,632
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
I'm trying to figure out why we're so pessimistic. Kid is a .276 hitter without walking. That means he knows how to make contact. Someone will teach him discipline, and then he can explode as a hitter.

In a full season you can slot him in with a 35 home runs- that's pretty damn good.
How well did the trying to outhit the opponent philosophy work out throughout the 90's?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-06-2010, 11:38 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 13,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver View Post
How well did the trying to outhit the opponent philosophy work out throughout the 90's?
Point understood, but the fact remains that he has the capability to become dangerous with a little bit of discipline. He can hit.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-06-2010, 11:49 AM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Albany Park
Posts: 11,154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdy2PlayBall View Post
I know this is cherry picking stats, but he's only been in the minors for 2 years, and this year has been a bit of change for him because of the stint in the majors and all... but...

Viciedo 2009 at-bats/walks.... 504/23 ~ 21.9
Alexei's 2010 at-bats/walks.... 495/21 ~ 23.6

OBVIOUSLY, they are different players, and I am not saying it's ok how Alexei walks so little... but as we have all seen, Alexei is a decent offensive player, and has consistently shown for the past 3 years that he can be effective at the major league level. Just last year, Alexei had 49 walks. He obviously was trying to walk more in 2009, and I would assume he got help from somebody, somewhere. The difference between these two players? Viciedo isn't very good at defense, but he is also a very powerful hitter.

Any power hitter is going to get more garbage than a slappy hitter, especially when he already hit the cover off a ball during a game or series. He is young enough to learn to lay of breaking stuff, and he has already shown he can hit major league hitting. I think, given an offseason and maybe a half-a-year, he can learn to lay of the breaking stuff, which will result in more walks as well. I don't think it will happen automatically, but he's going to need to work with somebody, hopefully his focus from now on is hitting, and not 3B.

He is progressing no where near as fast as I thought he would, but he is still VERY young (21), and if it takes until he is 23-24 to come up and bat .280 with just a .335 OBP, but still hit the cover off the ball, I don't think he will be a bust. He's making a lot of money, but any time now, something could snap and we could have an All-Star ready to come out of our system. I'm not giving up hope like many people here seem to be, his problems are minor tweeks, it's not like we're talking about somebody who just flat-out can't hit.
What are you trying to show with these numbers here? Last year Dayan had a BB% of 4.3% and this year in the minors it's at 2.7%

I'm not sure he's going to bust, but I don't think he's close to becoming an all-star.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-06-2010, 11:59 AM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rockford
Posts: 6,378
Default

It's difficult for BA's no. 61 prospect to be a bust, right? Expectations are already low.

Also, saying you can "slot him in" for 35 home runs...what?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-06-2010, 03:03 PM
Rdy2PlayBall Rdy2PlayBall is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
What are you trying to show with these numbers here? Last year Dayan had a BB% of 4.3% and this year in the minors it's at 2.7%

I'm not sure he's going to bust, but I don't think he's close to becoming an all-star.
Glad you read my post.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-06-2010, 03:08 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rockford
Posts: 6,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdy2PlayBall View Post
Glad you read my post.
I'd recommend you look up what a marginal first baseman produces at the plate. Hint: it's likely better than Viciedo's ceiling, given his plate discipline issues.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-06-2010, 03:09 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Albany Park
Posts: 11,154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdy2PlayBall View Post
Glad you read my post.
I did read your post, and have no idea what you are accomplishing by comparing Alexei's 2010 walk total with Dayan's 2009 walk total.

They aren't even remotely similar players and you have no concise point in your ramblings.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-06-2010, 03:18 PM
Rdy2PlayBall Rdy2PlayBall is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
I'd recommend you look up what a marginal first baseman produces at the plate. Hint: it's likely better than Viciedo's ceiling, given his plate discipline issues.
If he continues to have plate discipline issues, he's not going to be very good, but he is still young and has a few years to get things together. He can still be as young as most of the prospects that start coming to the majors (with a year or two more of work).

If he can put together the kind of average and OBP Alexei can get (walks were similar with the stats I showed), then he can end up a decent player, with the potential to have All-Star numbers. This year wasn't a step in the right direction, but it might have something to do with working multiple positions and moving up to the majors, I don't know. I'll still give him a year before I start to think he will be a "bust", because his issue that needs to be fixed isn't a mechanical or physical one... just a mental one. (may be a good, or bad thing). Like all prospects, we need to give him some time to develop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
I did read your post, and have no idea what you are accomplishing by comparing Alexei's 2010 walk total with Dayan's 2009 walk total.
They aren't even remotely similar players and you have no concise point in your ramblings.
I didn't say they were similar, I said they both have problems with walking, and Alexei is still effective. I also said Viciedo still needs work. Alexei is an example of a player that was okay to good offensively, yet walked only about 20 times. There is no doubt Viciedo is going to need to lay of the breaking stuff more, but it's not going to take a huge revamping of his approach for him to be successful in the majors.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:12 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.