Drill baby drill

[Bob Roarman]

Again, it comes back to the question of: What does it achieve? Nothing. It only has the potential to hurt your team. And in a pennant race nonetheless. It's not the years of yesterday where it was sort of accepted. It's not like that anymore.

[bunty_doghunter]

Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187

Tony La Russa, who for all his flaws has won a ton of games, has ordered guys hit and lost the game but he figured that losing that one game was worth it down the road because teams knew they couldn't **** around with his teams. Yea, you might lose the game but you're telling teams to be careful because you won't sit idly by while they are plunking guys and that might pay off in spades down the stretch when the team knows their pitchers have their backs. There is a lot of history to suggest that retaliation works and it doesn't show up in the box score.

We got rid of him too.

[BringHomeDaBacon]

Originally Posted by getonbckthr

Did you see the play in question? I'm assuming not. If you had you would have noticed Young went out of his way to go after AJ. Young after replay actually gave up a run to make contact with AJ. It was not an attempt to make a hard-nosed play, It was an attempt to take out and injure our catcher. So yes I think Ozzie Guillen and the Chicago White Sox, since major league baseball won't do anything about, should take it into our own hands. An eye for an eye.

Major League baseball won't do anything about it because there was nothing wrong with the play.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by bunty_doghunter

We got rid of him too.

Hawk did, in his infinite wisdom as GM.

[getonbckthr]

Originally Posted by BringHomeDaBacon

Major League baseball won't do anything about it because there was nothing wrong with the play.

Are you serious? Did you not see Young clearly go out of his way not to knock the ball out of AJ's glove but to punch him in the mouth? Seriously? Really? Really??

[DickAllen72]

Originally Posted by BringHomeDaBacon

Major League baseball won't do anything about it because there was nothing wrong with the play.

So there's nothing wrong with hitting a guy in the face? Then the Sox should just hit the Twins first baseman in the face every play at first tonight.

You don't try to "knock the ball loose" by hitting the catcher in the face. If a catcher is blocking the plate you lower your shoulder and try to knock the ball from his mitt by trying to knock him on his ass.

Young went way out of his way, not even trying to get to the plate then went in with both hands to the face. Even though was out on a play that wasn't even close, he returned to the dugout and started high fiving everyone because he hit AJ in the face.

The Sox should make hard contact with a Twin in every play possible for the rest of this series. Go in hard and high every play at 2B. Intentionally make contact with the pitcher covering 1B even on an easy out instead of avoiding contact. Flatten Mauer at the plate every time they come around to score. There's plenty of ways to payback that don't involve throwing at a hitter. But if they must throw inside to get the point across, do it and don't worry if one slips and gets too far inside.

[mzh]

Originally Posted by DickAllen72

So there's nothing wrong with hitting a guy in the face? Then the Sox should just hit the Twins first baseman in the face every play at first tonight.

You don't try to "knock the ball loose" by hitting the catcher in the face. If a catcher is blocking the plate you lower your shoulder and try to knock the ball from his mitt by trying to knock him on his ass.

Young went way out of his way, not even trying to get to the plate then went in with both hands to the face. Even though was out on a play that wasn't even close, he returned to the dugout and started high fiving everyone because he hit AJ in the face.

The Sox should make hard contact with a Twin in every play possible for the rest of this series. Go in hard and high every play at 2B. Intentionally make contact with the pitcher covering 1B even on an easy out instead of avoiding contact. Flatten Mauer at the plate every time they come around to score. There's plenty of ways to payback that don't involve throwing at a hitter. But if they must throw inside to get the point across, do it and don't worry if one slips and gets too far inside.

Meh, IDK. Just don't do anything stupid. Just ****ing win :P

[DickAllen72]

Originally Posted by mzh

Meh, IDK. Just don't do anything stupid. Just ****ing win :P

They should win every game just for the sake of winning not as retaliation for cheap shots.

If you're playing chess with someone and your opponent kicks you in the shins under the table, what do you do? As for me, I would just get up and leave because I'm not a violent person. But quitting is not an option here.

Some would say the best way to retaliate for the guy bruising your shins is just to win the chess game. I say you have to kick the guy back or punch him in the face to get him to stop kicking you, then you finish the chess game.

You're always playing to win, but when someone attacks you physically you defend yourself.

[fox23]

Originally Posted by sachin

I'm aware. Did you know that Bill Veeck once sent a midget to bat? They both have NOTHING to do with the conversation of beaning a player.

Exactly this.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by DickAllen72

They should win every game just for the sake of winning not as retaliation for cheap shots.

If you're playing chess with someone and your opponent kicks you in the shins under the table, what do you do? As for me, I would just get up and leave because I'm not a violent person. But quitting is not an option here.

Some would say the best way to retaliate for the guy bruising your shins is just to win the chess game. I say you have to kick the guy back or punch him in the face to get him to stop kicking you, then you finish the chess game.

You're always playing to win, but when someone attacks you physically you defend yourself.

Baseball ain't chess. Sometimes it's a physical sport.

[areilly]

New rule: every White Sox infielder gets a homemade knife taped around the inside of his forearm. Guy looks at you funny, shows you up, crashes into you, you send him to Shank City. The Sox will still be highly flawed and on their way to second, maybe even third place, but at least no one will **** with them. And really, isn't that what it's all about?

[DickAllen72]

Originally Posted by DSpivack

Baseball ain't chess. Sometimes it's a physical sport.

.......on both sides.

[getonbckthr]

Originally Posted by DickAllen72

.......on both sides.

But not deliberately going out of the base-line, possibly taking a run away from your team to punch the catcher in the face.

[DickAllen72]

Originally Posted by getonbckthr

But not deliberately going out of the base-line, possibly taking a run away from your team to punch the catcher in the face.

I'm with you. Football is of course a much more physical sport than baseball, yet even in football it is illegal to go to the face, head slap, etc.

What Young did was beyond the bounds of baseball.

[cards press box]

Originally Posted by areilly

New rule: every White Sox infielder gets a homemade knife taped around the inside of his forearm. Guy looks at you funny, shows you up, crashes into you, you send him to Shank City. The Sox will still be highly flawed and on their way to second, maybe even third place, but at least no one will **** with them. And really, isn't that what it's all about?

Throw all the hyperbole around that you want. This isn't about being the toughest guy on the field. It is about standing one's ground and competing.

With regard to the point made about the Sox shortcomings, yes the Sox have some flaws. Their offense has been inconsistent and at least one or two bats short all year. If the Sox felt that they didn't want a full-time DH like Jim Thome, that's a plausible strategy. But if they were going to go that route, they needed to have more offensive punch coming off the bench than Kotsay and A. Jones (and now Teahen) were likely to provide. Omar Vizquel and his defense at 3B have been great and, really, provided the spark for the six week period in June and July in which the Sox played the best baseball in the majors.

Having said all that, the Sox and their flaws are a wholly separate issue from the principle that a baseball team has to defend itself. Delmon Young didn't "look funny" at A.J. Pierzynski; he gave him a forearm blow to the face, something that is simply not done in baseball unless one is looking for a fight.

And, no this isn't just about stopping people from messing with the Sox. Baseball (and all sports, really) are about competition. If the other guy can intimidate you, then you are not going to compete and have lost already.

Can you imagine someone running home in a game against the Indians in the mid-fifties and giving a forearm chop to Indian catcher Jim Hegan? Early Wynn, Bob Lemon or Bob Feller would no doubt dust the guy. In fact, someone made a particularly dirty play against Larry Doby and Wynn, obviously in no mood for any shenanigans, knocked the guy down four times in one game!

If a player and his team are intimidated, they can't compete. And if they can't compete, they are done.

After Torii Hunter unnecessarily steamrolled Sox catcher Jamie Burke in 2004 and the Sox didn't retaliate, they were essentially done. The good news is that the Sox made some changes that winter (like bringing in AJ) that led to a World Championship.

Even if the Sox season has hit a proverbial brick wall, it is always good to remember that the Twins are 6-18 in the playoffs under Ron Gardenhire.