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  #91  
Old 11-16-2008, 02:37 PM
oeo oeo is offline
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Originally Posted by btrain929 View Post
1) Because if Beckham is up with the team, that means both Getz and Nix have failed. Getz has faced better competition than Beckham and has done fairly well. He deserves a shot over a guy with 58 Low-A minor league at-bats.
Or it means that Beckham is a stud?

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2) Most of us agree that we have rushed prospects through the system too fast. If Beckham comes up and fails, that's yet another example.
Yeah, since Beckham would be the first Top 10 pick to fly through a system and make immediate impact. This is quite a bit different when you've got a guy with Beckham's skill set.
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  #92  
Old 11-16-2008, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by oeo View Post
Yeah, since Beckham would be the first Top 10 pick to fly through a system and make immediate impact. This is quite a bit different when you've got a guy with Beckham's skill set.
"Fly thru the system" would be a drastic understatement in this case. Playing in the majors just months after being drafted? That's pretty rare outside of some bullpen guys.

I'm just against this idea in general. If it happens, I hope he goes Ryan Braun on opposing teams (with better defense). But, if he puts up a line of .250/.325 with some HR's, would that really be considered "a success?"

Why don't we just bring up Jordan Danks to play CF since he's put up about the same stats as Beckham against the same competition?
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  #93  
Old 11-16-2008, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by btrain929 View Post
"Fly thru the system" would be a drastic understatement in this case. Playing in the majors just months after being drafted? That's pretty rare outside of some bullpen guys.

I'm just against this idea in general. If it happens, I hope he goes Ryan Braun on opposing teams (with better defense). But, if he puts up a line of .250/.325 with some HR's, would that really be considered "a success?"

Why don't we just bring up Jordan Danks to play CF since he's put up about the same stats as Beckham against the same competition?
Wow, that's logic with some fatal flaws...
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  #94  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by btrain929 View Post
"Fly thru the system" would be a drastic understatement in this case. Playing in the majors just months after being drafted? That's pretty rare outside of some bullpen guys.
Ryan Zimmerman had 67 minor league AB's before being called up. Troy Tulowitzki had only 126. Rare? Sure. Top 10 picks are rare talents.

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I'm just against this idea in general. If it happens, I hope he goes Ryan Braun on opposing teams (with better defense). But, if he puts up a line of .250/.325 with some HR's, would that really be considered "a success?"
Learning on the job? Why not?

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Why don't we just bring up Jordan Danks to play CF since he's put up about the same stats as Beckham against the same competition?
Uh...no he hasn't.

.318/.415/.432 vs. .394/.468/.652. Yep, definitely the same. They're the same talents coming into professional ball, too.

Last edited by oeo; 11-16-2008 at 05:26 PM.
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  #95  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:23 PM
EMachine10 EMachine10 is offline
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If he earns it, then why not? If he's hitting .360 or something with nice peripherals in AA, then what is it proving to let him smack around AA? If Nix or Getz are playing well then we can allow him to take his time, but if our guys are struggling and he's doing well, then give him a shot. It's been done successfully before.
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  #96  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:37 PM
btrain929
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Originally Posted by oeo View Post
Ryan Zimmerman had 67 minor league AB's before being called up. Troy Tulowitzki had only 126. Rare? Sure. Top 10 picks are rare talents.

Learning on the job? Why not?

Uh...no he hasn't.

.318/.415/.432 vs. .394/.468/.652. Yep, definitely the same. They're the same talents coming into professional ball, too.
Your first 2 points only happened because the Nationals and Rockies were terrible when those players came up. So there wasn't division race pressure on them. We're expected to be one of the best teams in the Central and in the AL. How many young'ns you want running around? There's a good chance we're already gonna have Richard, Fields, Russell, Getz, Nix, and maybe BA/Owens out there in full-time roles.

As far as Danks vs Beckham, I was being sarcastic that Danks should be brought up, too. However, you just looked at the AFL stats. Mix in the stats from their time in A ball, and those numbers get a lot closer as Danks outperformed Beckham by a good margin at Kanny.

Bottom line, just because old man Gammons and some scouts say something, I'm not gonna jump and act like it's written in stone. Best case scenario, Getz, Nix, or both actually do well in their roles, and we won't even have to think about Beckham until 2010.
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  #97  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:42 PM
EMachine10 EMachine10 is offline
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Originally Posted by btrain929 View Post
Your first 2 points only happened because the Nationals and Rockies were terrible when those players came up. So there wasn't division race pressure on them. We're expected to be one of the best teams in the Central and in the AL. How many young'ns you want running around? There's a good chance we're already gonna have Richard, Fields, Russell, Getz, Nix, and maybe BA/Owens out there in full-time roles.

As far as Danks vs Beckham, I was being sarcastic that Danks should be brought up, too. However, you just looked at the AFL stats. Mix in the stats from their time in A ball, and those numbers get a lot closer as Danks outperformed Beckham by a good margin at Kanny.

Bottom line, just because old man Gammons and some scouts say something, I'm not gonna jump and act like it's written in stone. Best case scenario, Getz, Nix, or both actually do well in their roles, and we won't even have to think about Beckham until 2010.
I hope so, but I think it's a little early for anyone to make that prediction.

That's absolutely right, but it's somewhat comforting to know that if Nix/Getz don't cut it, he may be ready to step in.
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  #98  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by EMachine10 View Post
If he earns it, then why not? If he's hitting .360 or something with nice peripherals in AA, then what is it proving to let him smack around AA? If Nix or Getz are playing well then we can allow him to take his time, but if our guys are struggling and he's doing well, then give him a shot. It's been done successfully before.
That's all I'm saying, I agree. But people are acting like this should be our plan going into the season because of an AFL hot streak.
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  #99  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:52 PM
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Daver Daver is offline
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The White sox have a long rich history of rushing players to the MLB roster and watching them fail under the pressure, why stop now?
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  #100  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:57 PM
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The White sox have a long rich history of rushing players to the MLB roster and watching them fail under the pressure, why stop now?
Truth is that.

Then there's always the Ryan Zimmerman's of the world who tear up the minors and HAVE to be brought up sooner rather than later. Not predicting anything, just saying.
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  #101  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:03 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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People can stop using the word "Nix" when speaking about roles on this team. He'll be lucky to be the 25th man. He's really mediocre, at best.
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  #102  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:12 PM
oeo oeo is offline
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Originally Posted by btrain929 View Post
Your first 2 points only happened because the Nationals and Rockies were terrible when those players came up. So there wasn't division race pressure on them. We're expected to be one of the best teams in the Central and in the AL. How many young'ns you want running around? There's a good chance we're already gonna have Richard, Fields, Russell, Getz, Nix, and maybe BA/Owens out there in full-time roles.
All that "youngins" crap is overrated. The Rays reached the World Series this year with a bunch of "youngins." They seemed to handle our veteran team very well.

Again, Zimmerman and Tulowitzki are rare. I really don't think having the pressure of a division race would have changed how they played.

Believe it or not, some guys can handle all that pressure at such a young age. Tulowitzki seemed to do fine in the postseason. Evan Longoria, as a 22-year-old, seemed to be okay.

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As far as Danks vs Beckham, I was being sarcastic that Danks should be brought up, too. However, you just looked at the AFL stats. Mix in the stats from their time in A ball, and those numbers get a lot closer as Danks outperformed Beckham by a good margin at Kanny.
Danks' numbers have come down closer to Earth while facing better competition, while Beckham's have actually gotten better.

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Bottom line, just because old man Gammons and some scouts say something, I'm not gonna jump and act like it's written in stone. Best case scenario, Getz, Nix, or both actually do well in their roles, and we won't even have to think about Beckham until 2010.
That's the bottom line? No one said anything was written in stone.

The bottom line is, if the guy can play, let him play.
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  #103  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by oeo View Post
All that "youngins" crap is overrated. The Rays reached the World Series this year with a bunch of "youngins." They seemed to handle our veteran team very well.

The bottom line is, if the guy can play, let him play.
1) Hahahaha, because the youngn's I listed on our team are remotely close to the talent level of the youngn's on TB
2) I agree. I just don't think it's a forgone conclusion that he can "play" just yet on the MLB level because he's done well in 66 AB's mostly off of pitchers working on problems/weaknesses of their own.
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  #104  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by btrain929 View Post
1) Hahahaha, because the youngn's I listed on our team are remotely close to the talent level of the youngn's on TB
We also wouldn't be asking our young guys to step into the roles that TB's did.

Besides, didn't your argument have to do with being able to handle pressure, and not actual talent?

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2) I agree. I just don't think it's a forgone conclusion that he can "play" just yet on the MLB level because he's done well in 66 AB's mostly off of pitchers working on problems/weaknesses of their own.
Again, no one said it was a 'forgone conclusion.' No one said anything is 'set in stone.' I don't know where you're coming up with this crap, but it certainly wasn't from Gammons' blog or this thread.

The only comments that have resembled 'set in stone' are yours. You think it's a 'forgone conclusion' that he will not be able to play at the major league level next year.

Last edited by oeo; 11-16-2008 at 08:35 PM.
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  #105  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by oeo View Post
Besides, didn't your argument have to do with being able to handle pressure, and not actual talent?

You think it's a 'forgone conclusion' that he will not be able to play at the major league level next year.
1) I'm pretty sure if you're playing in the MLB, to handle pressure, you need talent. How can you handle pressure playing pro ball w/o it?
2) No, I just find it funny that about 2 months ago nobody would have even considered him ready to play with the Sox in '09, but now because of his strong AFL showing, he can step in by June?

I honestly don't even know what we're conflicting about. I think we both feel that Getz/Nix will get the first shot, and the only way Beckham gets his shot is if those 2 suck AND Beckham is tearing it up in the minors. But I'm not gonna expect him to be the savior if he comes up mid-09, and I think some people (not you in particular) are...
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