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  #31  
Old 06-16-2008, 10:42 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Originally Posted by munchman33 View Post
Just stop and listen to the argument. No one is saying that. We are talking about improving the offense. In what universe is a Swisher/Anderson OFFENSIVE combination greater than what a Swisher/Eldred OFFENSIVE combination? None. And that's what I'm arguing.
Ok. I could also say that the Anderson/Swisher defensive contribution makes up for the difference. It's not a gulf. Eldred is not Fields. He is not even Jack Cust -- hell, he's nowhere near Cust.
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  #32  
Old 06-16-2008, 10:47 PM
munchman33 munchman33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
Ok. I could also say that the Anderson/Swisher defensive contribution makes up for the difference. It's not a gulf. Eldred is not Fields. He is not even Jack Cust -- hell, he's nowhere near Cust.
But we're not having a problem with giving up runs because of Swisher in center. Our pitching staff has been so good we could throw Thome in center and we still wouldn't give up many runs.

We're having a problem scoring runs. And now we're losing Konerko from the lineup. The argument is purely offense. And Eldred would be the call over BA. Granted, I'd take Fields over Eldred. But Fields is hurt.
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  #33  
Old 06-16-2008, 10:55 PM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
This is a zero dimensional argument. You now have zero dimensional credibility.

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  #34  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:03 PM
Mr. White Sox Mr. White Sox is offline
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Originally Posted by munchman33 View Post
Just stop and listen to the argument. No one is saying that. We are talking about improving the offense. In what universe is a Swisher/Anderson OFFENSIVE combination greater than what a Swisher/Eldred OFFENSIVE combination? None. And that's what I'm arguing.
To me, that's akin to putting Mackowiak in CF in 2006. Anderson (and his superior defense) rode the pine in favor of a guy who was supposed to be an offensive upgrade. Now, that's not to say that Eldred won't pull a Dunn and go crazy up here, but it's incredibly, unbelievably unlikely. I think upper-bound expectations are a .230-.240 avg with 10-12 HR in the 2nd half. Is that all that much better than Brian? Maybe over a full season with 550+ ABs, Eldred could somehow break out and go .250 with 30+ HR, but again, it's unlikely, and it's just as risky as sticking any other failed major leaguer with LTP out in the lineup.

I say just stick with what's working on the defensive end, use Swisher at 1B and, if necessary, stick Eldred there on occasion with Paulie out just to see what he can do.
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  #35  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:08 PM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. White Sox View Post
I say just stick with what's working on the defensive end, use Swisher at 1B and, if necessary, stick Eldred there on occasion with Paulie out just to see what he can do.

Stick Eldred in the minors...and keep him there.
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  #36  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:12 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by munchman33 View Post
In what universe is a Swisher/Anderson OFFENSIVE combination greater than what a Swisher/Eldred OFFENSIVE combination? None. And that's what I'm arguing.
The universe where Brad has looked horrible in the majors, and the same one where the runs Brian takes away with his D are more beneficial than the occasional HR in between strikeouts every three AB's that Brad brings to the plate.
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  #37  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:14 PM
Lillian Lillian is offline
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It has been interesting reading all of your posts. It does seem a little unfair to blithely reject Eldred as a "AAAA" player, or career minor leaguer, who couldn't hit Major League pitching.
He has only had a total of 236 Big League at bats over just two seasons.
Even then, while his average was pretty bad, it was better in 2005, before the thumb injury. I think that his struggles last year, in his limited 46 at bats, were attributable to his having missed almost the entire previous year, and his slow recovery from the injury. The rest of his Major League at bats were all in 2005, and they weren't that bad.

Look, the guy was considered the Pirates top power hitting prospect for a couple of years before the injury, from which he has now clearly recovered.
He had put up great numbers before his injury, and is on a pace to surpass them this year.

He may, or may not pan out, but his production is nothing to sneer at. 19 doubles, 24 homers, and 67 RBI's in less than half a season, while hitting .267 against both righties and lefties, is pretty impressive to me. He is also regarded as a decent fielding First baseman.
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  #38  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:21 PM
munchman33 munchman33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lillian View Post
It has been interesting reading all of your posts. It does seem a little unfair to blithely reject Eldred as a "AAAA" player, or career minor leaguer, who couldn't hit Major League pitching.
He has only had a total of 236 Big League at bats over just two seasons.
Even then, while his average was pretty bad, it was better in 2005, before the thumb injury. I think that his struggles last year, in his limited 46 at bats, were attributable to his having missed almost the entire previous year, and his slow recovery from the injury. The rest of his Major League at bats were all in 2005, and they weren't that bad.

Look, the guy was considered the Pirates top power hitting prospect for a couple of years before the injury, from which he has now clearly recovered.
He had put up great numbers before his injury, and is on a pace to surpass them this year.

He may, or may not pan out, but his production is nothing to sneer at. 19 doubles, 24 homers, and 67 RBI's in less than half a season, while hitting .267 against both righties and lefties, is pretty impressive to me. He is also regarded as a decent fielding First baseman.
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  #39  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:21 PM
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Daver Daver is offline
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Originally Posted by Lillian View Post
He is also regarded as a decent fielding First baseman.
Decent compared to what?

He is better than a cardboard cutout of Frank Thomas, but the difference is marginal at best.
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  #40  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:23 PM
munchman33 munchman33 is offline
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Decent compared to what?

He is better than a cardboard cutout of Frank Thomas, but the difference is marginal at best.
Good defense at first base is about as important as having a dominant 13th pitcher on your staff.
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  #41  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:23 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by munchman33 View Post
Care to qualify that? Either part? Seriously, I'd like to hear a reasonable arguement that either:

1.) Eldred has no power
2.) Brian Anderson can hit

Go ahead, I'm waiting. Any evidence at all that's he's been even an average MLB bat.

Still waiting.

*crickets*

Thought so.
Right now, BA has a higher batting average than PK, Thome and Swisher.

Right now
, BA has a higher slugging percentage than PK and Swisher.

Right now, in less than half the ABs, BA has just two fewer doubles than PK and Swisher, and just three fewer than Thome.

Right now, he's hitting .250 on the year, .300 in the Sox last ten games and .333 in June. He also hit .300 in April. He had a bad May. Paulie, Swisher and Thome have had a bad season.

He's also so good with the glove that his CF defense prevents hitters from getting on base because he plays short and can turn some singles into outs, turns some balls that otherwise would be XBHs into singles and therefore prevents runs from scoring.

I have no problem promoting Brad Eldred as a backup 1B and DH/PH, but frankly, I think Swisher is a better option than Eldred at 1B. And putting Swisher at 1B allows you to upgrade the CF defense. And based on performance this year, putting BA in the lineup is an offensive upgrade, too.
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  #42  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:27 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Sorry, munch. I'm going with Daver on this one.

If BA was hitting like he did during the first half of 2006, you'd have an argument. But not this year.
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  #43  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:27 PM
munchman33 munchman33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Right now, BA has a higher batting average than PK, Thome and Swisher.

Right now, BA has a higher slugging percentage than PK and Swisher.

Right now, in less than half the ABs, BA has just two fewer doubles than PK and Swisher, and just three fewer than Thome.

Right now, he's hitting .250 on the year, .300 in the Sox last ten games and .333 in June. He also hit .300 in April. He had a bad May. Paulie, Swisher and Thome have had a bad season.

He's also so good with the glove that his CF defense prevents hitters from getting on base because he plays short and can turn some singles into outs, turns some balls that otherwise would be XBHs into singles and therefore prevents runs from scoring.

I have no problem promoting Brad Eldred as a backup 1B and DH/PH, but frankly, I think Swisher is a better option than Eldred at 1B. And putting Swisher at 1B allows you to upgrade the CF defense. And based on performance this year, putting BA in the lineup is an offensive upgrade, too.
And BA, terrible as he has been, has been overperforming compared to his career norms. Whereas the other guys are performing well below their career norms. I'm not the world's biggest Swisher fan, but he's shown flashes lately that are way above anything BA could provide.

The only way BA is hitting .250 for the year is if he gets sent down now.
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  #44  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:28 PM
munchman33 munchman33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Sorry, munch. I'm going with Daver on this one.

If BA was hitting like he did during the first half of 2006, you'd have an argument. But not this year.
He's hitting .250 with no power...
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  #45  
Old 06-17-2008, 12:00 AM
Lillian Lillian is offline
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Decent compared to what?

He is better than a cardboard cutout of Frank Thomas, but the difference is marginal at best.
He has a Minor League career fielding percentage of .991 at First.
He is not a bad fielding first baseman. On what are you basing your opinion?
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