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  #91  
Old 03-02-2018, 03:22 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Anderson barely profiles as a SS at this point let alone 3b. I can actually see him playing the Javy Baez role and being able to play CF, SS, 2b, and 3b to maximize his value.
What??
  #92  
Old 03-02-2018, 03:40 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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What??
He had a .679 OPS last year and finished dead last in fielding percentage among qualified SS in the MLB. He still has time, but isn't close to where he needs to be for starting on a contending team.
  #93  
Old 03-02-2018, 05:16 PM
blurry blurry is offline
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Last year was a bit of an anomaly for him, though. After he sought counseling to deal with the anguish of losing his friend his game really picked up. I think this year will tell us just how good he really is.
  #94  
Old 03-03-2018, 06:45 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post

The difference defensively between the two does not negate 20-point OPS+ and wRC+ differences. Moustakas is still well ahead of Sanchez as far as 3B is concerned.

Besides, Moustakas probably would phase out Davidson, not Sanchez. Anderson, Moncada, Moustakas, and Abreu all could DH about 20 times, giving Sanchez 40 more starts at 3B and 20 more starts at both SS and 2B. Combine that with off-days for the infielders, in-game substitutions, and any time missed due to injury, and Sanchez would project to get a full season’s worth of playing time anyway.
I can't possibly see how Yolmer was worth twice the WAR of Moustakas last year. Every fiber of my being says no. DWAR and UZR aren't worth the powder to blow them up. Yes Yolmer was superior to Moustakas defensively but that's about it. This is but another of countless examples of head scratchers in the WAR games. Isn't wRC+ another of the hallowed new stats? Even in the new age of analytics there are not only anomalies but contradictions. If not there wouldn't have been this interesting exchange between you and A. Cavatica. Lastly, no I'm not changing my mind about going after Moustakas. Just taking a look at this subject that no one else seems to want to take.
  #95  
Old 03-03-2018, 09:10 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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One of the more recent White Sox Talk Podcast discussed this issue at length, Moustakas or Yolmer Sanchez. Their conclusion was Moustakas wouldn't be worth his asking price, even if he's just a stop gap. Their reasoning looking at how long the White Sox have gone without a long term solution at third since the Crede days. They took into consideration that Yolmer's peak is likely a bench player.

Here are players who have started at 3B for the White Sox since Crede since September 2, 2008:

Mark Teahen
Kevin Youkilis
Tyler Saladino
Omar Vizquel
Gordon Beckham
Brent Morel
Todd Frazier
Jeff Keppinger
Yolmer Sanchez
Connor Gillespie
Juan Uribe
Orlando Hudson
Jayson Nix
Ray Olmedo
Dayan Viciedo
Eduardo Escobar
Leury Garcia
Brent Lillibridge
Wilson Betemit
Jose Lopez
Dallas McPherson

There are some above average players sprinkled among a whole lot of mediocre to bad players in there. 3B needs a permanent, long term solution.

Machado has said he won't play anything but SS. Donaldson is approaching his mid-30's. Past that, the only other true superstars at 3B are Rendon and Arenado, both of whom will be available in FA in 2020 if they don't sign extensions. Edit: Available superstars. Kris Bryant is a superstar and no way are the Cubs letting him walk.

I'd like to see them somehow finally get a true allstar at 3B who can lock down the position for at least half a decade, but I don't know where that will come from.

Last edited by blurry; 03-03-2018 at 09:21 AM.
  #96  
Old 03-03-2018, 10:19 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
I'd like to see them somehow finally get a true allstar at 3B who can lock down the position for at least half a decade, but I don't know where that will come from.
He will come from the draft, from international free agency, or by trading for a young player who's blocked by a veteran.

He will probably not come from winning a bidding war for a 5-time All-Star, and he certainly will not come from the type of "proven veteran" the Sox have tended to go after since 2005.
  #97  
Old 03-03-2018, 12:06 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Honestly, if not Moustakas, then who will be the Sox 3b in '19-20? I'm not a huge fan of him, but I don't see any other viable options when I look around the league and see other players availability. We don't have to have an all star at every position. He has proved to be a solid piece on a WS team twice already and a 3 year deal would have him from age 29-31. Would be nice to have another .800 plus OPS guy in the lineup, he seems like a good bet to do that for the next few years. He also has nice splits against lefties as well.
  #98  
Old 03-03-2018, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
Last year was a bit of an anomaly for him, though. After he sought counseling to deal with the anguish of losing his friend his game really picked up. I think this year will tell us just how good he really is.
Yes, 2018 is a big year for Anderson. People point to the 28 errors last year, but you have to put that in proper context: He had 22 errors on July 16. Only six occurred the last two and a half months of the year. He was much, much better defensively in August and September.

The coming season should tell us a lot about Anderson.
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  #99  
Old 03-03-2018, 06:10 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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At age 25, Moustakas was in his 4th season, 3 of which were full seasons. He put up an OPS of .632 with 15 homers. His previous best was .708 with 20 homers.
At age 25, Yolmer was in his first 4th season, only one of which was full (another he had 400ish PAs). He put up an OPS of .732 with 12 homers.
Davidson, age 26, first full season put up .711 with 26 homers.
After age 25, Moustakas started hitting in the low .800s. Now I don't know whether Yolmer, Davidson or anyone else will match that. But there's no reason not to give it a season to find out....especially considering the sordid history of this regime with their "proven veterans."
And if it doesn't work out, one thing is for sure: a player of Moustakas' skill will be available in trade.
  #100  
Old 03-03-2018, 07:08 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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The only reason I'm against signing Moustakas, is because of the QO that is attached. Without that, he would probably be a great bargain. The Sox can't afford to punt on a 2nd round draft pick and $1.5M of draft pool money.
  #101  
Old 03-03-2018, 07:18 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986
The only reason I'm against signing Moustakas, is because of the QO that is attached. Without that, he would probably be a great bargain. The Sox can't afford to punt on a 2nd round draft pick and $1.5M of draft pool money.
I think the QO is a big reason he is still unsigned. I think the same also holds true for Arrieta, Cobb, and Lynn.
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  #102  
Old 03-04-2018, 01:17 AM
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Not that this means anything as far as baseball business, but Mike and his wife just had a baby. Congrats to them.
https://twitter.com/Mooose_8/status/...458815495?s=19
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  #103  
Old 03-04-2018, 04:33 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
At age 25, Moustakas was in his 4th season, 3 of which were full seasons. He put up an OPS of .632 with 15 homers. His previous best was .708 with 20 homers.
At age 25, Yolmer was in his first 4th season, only one of which was full (another he had 400ish PAs). He put up an OPS of .732 with 12 homers.
Davidson, age 26, first full season put up .711 with 26 homers.
After age 25, Moustakas started hitting in the low .800s. Now I don't know whether Yolmer, Davidson or anyone else will match that. But there's no reason not to give it a season to find out....especially considering the sordid history of this regime with their "proven veterans."
And if it doesn't work out, one thing is for sure: a player of Moustakas' skill will be available in trade.
I agree with you on Moose.

I do have one question for you: if this organization has a checkered (I won't say sordid) history signing FAs what faith do you have in this organization building a contender from the ground up?
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  #104  
Old 03-04-2018, 06:43 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
I agree with you on Moose.

I do have one question for you: if this organization has a checkered (I won't say sordid) history signing FAs what faith do you have in this organization building a contender from the ground up?
Faith is the wrong word from my perspective:

Amateur scouting, international scouting, and professional scouting are done by different people.

Also, they are drafting better and beginning to do better at developing players.
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Last edited by Frater Perdurabo; 03-04-2018 at 08:29 AM.
  #105  
Old 03-04-2018, 07:05 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post

Also, they are drafting better and beginning to to better at developing players.
Too early to say that until we see the final product.
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