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  #76  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:30 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
I know what they all mean but I think it's way too much info that I don't need to know.
At contract time does a player's agent actually come in with all this info? My player only batted .197 and struck out 200 times but his BABIP was phenomenal and he really barrels it.
When Boras was negotiating with the Rangers for ARod's contract he produced 80 pages of data to prove that ARod would be the greatest offensive ss in mlb history.

http://www.successfulmeetings.com/st...st-negotiator/
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  #77  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:06 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
I know what they all mean but I think it's way too much info that I don't need to know.
At contract time does a player's agent actually come in with all this info? My player only batted .197 and struck out 200 times but his BABIP was phenomenal and he really barrels it.
Yes. Only time they don't do it is during arbitration because if I remember correctly those stats are not allowed.
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  #78  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:46 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
One cannot really hit .197 and have a phenomenal BABIP.

OK, lets make it a pretty good BABIP
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  #79  
Old 09-14-2018, 04:03 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL
OK, lets make it a pretty good BABIP
For that type of player, you wouldnít be looking for BABIP. You would be looking for home runs at a level of at least 40, but preferably 50+, per year. You also would be looking for 100+ walks to mitigate the paltry batting average.

A 200-strikeout guy can slash .200/.350/.450 and still be an asset as a #6 or #7 hitter. Look no further than the 2012 White Sox. If they had one more legit middle-order hitter on the team to push Dunn a little farther down the lineup, they likely would have won the division.
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  #80  
Old 09-14-2018, 04:14 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish
Yes. Only time they don't do it is during arbitration because if I remember correctly those stats are not allowed.
Statcast stuff is not allowed. Readily-available advanced metrics are allowed.
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  #81  
Old 09-14-2018, 05:15 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
BABIP is not that difficult: itís Batting Average on Balls In Play. Basically itís a way to quantify if his batted balls are turning into outs or if heís getting on base.

Launch angle and exit velocity, coupled with BABIP, allow us to quantify a playerís hitting skills. Are they hitting for weak contact like Juan Pierre? Or hitting crisp line drives like Frank Thomas?

Most new stats are simply means by which to quantify things that scouts have always called parts of ďthe eye test.Ē
One thing that I think some stats and stat heads miss is that not every player is built the same. To use your example, Pierre obviously never hit the ball as hard or as far as Frank Thomas but Pierre was able to utilize his speed for more infield hits than Thomas ever was and that isnít necessarily accounted for in his BABIP. In fact, for guys like Pierre and Hamilton it would behoove them to hit it on the ground more than in the air, with the exception being a line drive possibly.
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  #82  
Old 09-14-2018, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
One cannot really hit .197 and have a phenomenal BABIP.
Well technically a phenomenal BABIP would be a low one. That way you could say your likely to be even better in the future.
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  #83  
Old 09-14-2018, 07:08 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
One thing that I think some stats and stat heads miss is that not every player is built the same. To use your example, Pierre obviously never hit the ball as hard or as far as Frank Thomas but Pierre was able to utilize his speed for more infield hits than Thomas ever was and that isnít necessarily accounted for in his BABIP. In fact, for guys like Pierre and Hamilton it would behoove them to hit it on the ground more than in the air, with the exception being a line drive possibly.
Exactly. One stat alone wonít tell us everything, but the whole context of multiple measurements can tell us a lot.
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  #84  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:29 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
For that type of player, you wouldnít be looking for BABIP. You would be looking for home runs at a level of at least 40, but preferably 50+, per year. You also would be looking for 100+ walks to mitigate the paltry batting average.

A 200-strikeout guy can slash .200/.350/.450 and still be an asset as a #6 or #7 hitter.
I neither need your stats, nor want to understand them. Good day, sir!
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  #85  
Old 09-15-2018, 10:31 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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BABIP is an objective stat, but it's so over-broad that you have to break it down subjectively to have any meaning. And when you do that, it doesn't have much meaning. If someone has a high BABIP and drives the ball, I don't care. When a slap hitter, lunger, or swing-at-everything guy has a high BABIP, you can be comfortable that the batting average is inflated. And to that extent, you don't really need BABIP.
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  #86  
Old 09-15-2018, 03:36 PM
Whitesox029 Whitesox029 is offline
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I agree with most of that article except for the bit about Abreu being "slightly better than average". It's a down year for him and he's had injury troubles, and yet still leads all AL first basemen in doubles and RBIs, 3rd in BA, 2nd in OPS, and managed to win the fan vote for the ASG. Every one of his other years indicates he's elite among first basemen, not "slightly better than average".
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  #87  
Old 09-16-2018, 12:37 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
BABIP is an objective stat, but it's so over-broad that you have to break it down subjectively to have any meaning. And when you do that, it doesn't have much meaning. If someone has a high BABIP and drives the ball, I don't care. When a slap hitter, lunger, or swing-at-everything guy has a high BABIP, you can be comfortable that the batting average is inflated. And to that extent, you don't really need BABIP.
I think a slap hitter would actually be more likely to maintain a high BABIP because he can more effectively leverage his speed by putting the ball in play.
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  #88  
Old 09-16-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I think a slap hitter would actually be more likely to maintain a high BABIP because he can more effectively leverage his speed by putting the ball in play.
They get lucky in spots...sometimes the grounders get through in an inordinate percentage, but most of the time they don't. And a lot of them don't have great speed. And when they age....
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  #89  
Old 09-17-2018, 12:52 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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I think a slap hitter would actually be more likely to maintain a high BABIP because he can more effectively leverage his speed by putting the ball in play.
There were the guys we used to call "place hitters," the "hit 'em where they ain't" guys. Today they'd be called slap hitters, but they'd choke up and punch the ball to the vacant parts of the field. They didn't try to hit it hard, just accurately.
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  #90  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:59 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Tonight's game brings home the reality that the Indians are better than the Sox at every position except maybe 1B, and significantly so. Sox pitching, now and in the future, is largely rabbit's foot stuff (see putative ace Rodon tonight and his last several starts). The org. adamantly refuses to make any changes toward the likely culprits.
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