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  #1  
Old 04-04-2003, 07:51 PM
lowesox lowesox is offline
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Default Am I the only guy who likes Manuel?

I think the people on this website can be really hard on the sox sometimes. And while I have taken some sharp stabs at KW in the past - I think I've finally found a point where I'm happy with all of the players, and all of the management.

I think Manuel a pretty good manager. Sure, he never blows a gasget - and that's important. But in general I usually agree with his pitching changes, and I like that the way he works the lineup.

The truth is, I'm not sure any Manager would be liked on this site with the way some posters are.

Am I the only person here who's really happy with this team? Until this season my favourite sox team of all time was 1993 (I loved the pitching staff) - now it's this year.
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  #2  
Old 04-04-2003, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Am I the only guy who likes Manuel?

Quote:
Originally posted by lowesox
I think the people on this website can be really hard on the sox sometimes. And while I have taken some sharp stabs at KW in the past - I think I've finally found a point where I'm happy with all of the players, and all of the management.

I think Manuel a pretty good manager. Sure, he never blows a gasget - and that's important. But in general I usually agree with his pitching changes, and I like that the way he works the lineup.

The truth is, I'm not sure any Manager would be liked on this site with the way some posters are.

Am I the only person here who's really happy with this team? Until this season my favourite sox team of all time was 1993 (I loved the pitching staff) - now it's this year.
If he gets this team to the playoffs and then gets them to make some noise then I am fine with him. But, this is his year to actually live up to the promise of 2000. If he can't win with this team, then he doesn't deserve to be managing the Sox, IMO.
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  #3  
Old 04-04-2003, 08:00 PM
lowesox lowesox is offline
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Default Re: Re: Am I the only guy who likes Manuel?

Quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile
If he gets this team to the playoffs and then gets them to make some noise then I am fine with him. But, this is his year to actually live up to the promise of 2000. If he can't win with this team, then he doesn't deserve to be managing the Sox, IMO.
I agree 100% with that.
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  #4  
Old 04-04-2003, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Am I the only guy who likes Manuel?

Quote:
Originally posted by lowesox
I think the people on this website can be really hard on the sox sometimes. And while I have taken some sharp stabs at KW in the past - I think I've finally found a point where I'm happy with all of the players, and all of the management.

I think Manuel a pretty good manager. Sure, he never blows a gasget - and that's important. But in general I usually agree with his pitching changes, and I like that the way he works the lineup.

The truth is, I'm not sure any Manager would be liked on this site with the way some posters are.

Am I the only person here who's really happy with this team? Until this season my favourite sox team of all time was 1993 (I loved the pitching staff) - now it's this year.
The next manager who receives MY unrequited love will be the first one since 1917 who wins a World Series.
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  #5  
Old 04-04-2003, 08:21 PM
kevingrt kevingrt is offline
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You might be the only guy that likes Manuel, but I don't dislike Manuel. I just don't "like him"
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  #6  
Old 04-04-2003, 08:25 PM
jeremyb1 jeremyb1 is offline
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Default Re: Re: Re: Am I the only guy who likes Manuel?

i'm a serious manuel backer. in sports everyone tends to blame the manager. maybe that's the nature of sports and you have to accept it to a certain degree. however, i fail to see how manuel is such a bad manager in the eyes of everyone here outside of the fact that we obviuosly have some decent talent and people want that to translate into 90+ wins every season and when that doesn't happen, people need a scape goat.

manuel came in and overacheived with a young club people thought would lose a lot of games in '99. in '00 his team exceeded expectations more than any other sox team in recent memory. we were picked by some to finish second to last in the division and we won 95 games. i guess baseball tends to take on a "what have you done for me lately" attitude and one good season two years ago doesn't mean that much now, but i feel like a lot of people fail to give manuel due credit for '00. if he receieved as much credit for '00 as he has blame for the past two seasons i doubt people would call for his job.

as for the last two seasons, manuel had injury issues with baldwin, howry, wunsch, d wells, parque, and eldred in '01 and lost his most productive offensive player in '00 for the entire season. a .500 record in light of that is pretty admirable in my opinion.

its not as easy to make excuses for last season but the team certainly wasn't as strong as some would suggest. lofton and clayton were absolute disasters disrupted team chemistry. ritchie was the worst pitcher in baseball and the rest of the rotation was quite inexperienced. lets be honest a rotation of buehrle, ritchie, garland, wright, and rauch was not capable of winning anything last season.
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  #7  
Old 04-04-2003, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: Am I the only guy who likes Manuel?

Quote:
Originally posted by lowesox
I think the people on this website can be really hard on the sox sometimes. And while I have taken some sharp stabs at KW in the past - I think I've finally found a point where I'm happy with all of the players, and all of the management.

I think Manuel a pretty good manager. Sure, he never blows a gasget - and that's important. But in general I usually agree with his pitching changes, and I like that the way he works the lineup.

The truth is, I'm not sure any Manager would be liked on this site with the way some posters are.

Am I the only person here who's really happy with this team? Until this season my favourite sox team of all time was 1993 (I loved the pitching staff) - now it's this year.
I don't think Manuel is as bad of a manager as he's made himself look the last few seasons...if that makes sense. I like it when a manager has the balls to make lineup changes & make unconventional - against the book moves. It flat out comes down to players executing during these situations & they haven't been able to very often for JM since the 2000 season. There has to come a point when the manager takes responsibility/heat for his players lack of execution. Jerry Manuel is dangerously close to this point.
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  #8  
Old 04-04-2003, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Re: Am I the only guy who likes Manuel?

Quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile
If he gets this team to the playoffs and then gets them to make some noise then I am fine with him. But, this is his year to actually live up to the promise of 2000. If he can't win with this team, then he doesn't deserve to be managing the Sox, IMO.
Well obviously playoff success is the goal, and nobody would be upset if the Sox won the ALDS or went deeper into the postseason. However I would be satisfied if he simply got the most out of his players, specifically a solid effort for six months of baseball. Manuel's teams have always failed to avoid the season-ending slumps. The '98 team was effectively eliminated before the all-star break (but excused for having young talent). The '99 team looked clueless for half of July and most of August (but again excused for being young). The Sox were buried by mid-May in 2001 (excused for suffering injuries) and by mid-June in 2002 (not excused at all). Others might question the team's effort the last two months of 2000, but I would chalk up the team's indifference to having a fat lead in the division.

The players like Manuel, however it's highly debatable he has ever gotten their best effort. Now in his SIXTH season as Sox manager, that's the problem.
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  #9  
Old 04-04-2003, 08:38 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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From the "official" White Sox web site:

Manager Jerry Manuel drew a mixed response, with more jeers than cheers .

Nobody ever said White Sox fans were stupid.

I think the reason so many fans dislike Manuel as a field manager (as opposed to a person) is because his doesn't appear to have a backbone. When this team needs a kick in the ass, or an umpire needs a serious confrontation, Manager Gandhi is never around.

Considering how this team has underachieved since July 2000, many Sox fans feel part of the reason (notice I said part) is because of him. I think Sox fans are getting tired of being a 'training ground" for inexperienced managers since ownership won't pay to bring in a great one.

Injuries were a legit excuse in 2001 (although it could be argued Manuel's "friend" and hand picked pitching coach is what caused those injuries to begin with) but not last season.

Also I think many Sox fans (most) want a manager in the mold of a Tony LaRussa, Earl Weaver, Lou Piniella, Billy Martin somebody who at least looks like they care.

Just my opinion.

Lip
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  #10  
Old 04-04-2003, 08:41 PM
calebhatesyou calebhatesyou is offline
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i agree with you, lowesox. i think the nature of message boards is to let some steam off with a somewhat contrived identity (e.g. dumb names with no faces). people would trash own mom if it would make them feel better.

i also agree with your assesment of the team. i like these guys. though, i would like to see the sox get accellerated production out of their new players (like colon and loiza), but this is not typically the sox m.o. we usually get status quo "corpse ball" out of the players we trade for (i.e. wells, belle, tony phillips, etc.) this is really dishartening concidering how players seem to flurish AFTER being in a sox uni. (wells, camron, sosa, etc.). i don't even hove a problem with his jerry manuel's so called "tinkering". but i think it wasn't conducive with previous rosters ( players like leifer need consistant PT), but i think the GM has given jerry a good roster for his expectations from his players. he has pros that can handle, and in some cases need, two or three or more days off a week. jose, rios, daubach, sandy, and graffy are all guys who can do what jerry asks when he asks with no questions asked. and lets face it, the positions that are being platooned ( namely center) are being platooned because nobody is that much better than the other guy at those positions ( aRow is about as good a borchard and rios can fill that position is they crack instead of developing)



in short, i like jerry, especially with this years team. he still deserves to be a bit of a "hot seat", but he doesn't deserve to have the temp. of that hot seat posted on this web site every day, lest we stoop to the level of university of florida fans who had a "fire ron zook" page up before the season started (it's ok if nobody on this message board knows about this but i went to UF)

look i just hope i gave lowesox some more ammo against the head hunters out there
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  #11  
Old 04-04-2003, 08:57 PM
michigan84 michigan84 is offline
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Yes
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2003, 11:26 PM
lowesox lowesox is offline
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Ya, I agree that Manuel deserves a little bit of heat for some questionable team performances in the past. Maybe, I like him as much as I do because he came in after Bevington and anybody would look like a genius compared to Bevington.

But its a great point that this is a perfect team for Jerry to manage. I think he's more of a chess player than he's a motivator and a team full of veterans shouldn't need to be motivated. Take Valentin for instance. He's sort of been designated our team leader and the other day against KC he stepped it up and hit two key 2-run homers. Now, I know we lost but if our veterans play like that we won't need a guy who runs around picking fights with umpires - we'll need a guy who can outwit the other manager.

If 50 games in the veterans aren't stepping it up, then I'll agree we'll need to make a change.
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2003, 11:36 PM
pudge pudge is offline
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I have to say, I don't dislike Manual as much as I disliked Lamont. He was brutal. He closed his eyes and let that '93 team win the division. The problem is, he didn't wake-up for the play-offs. (I think he's still asleep!) Bevington, of course, was even worse.

We've never really had anyone in Chicago to measure by. Living in Seattle, I can say I don't think Manual comes close to how Lou Pinella managed the Mariners. Pinella went balls-out trying to win every game. (You'd have to manage like that to get your team to win 116 games in one season.) Sure, Pinella has had his disappointing years too (and it's not like he's going to lead the Devil Rays to the title), and he never led the Mariners to the World Series, but he did once win a World Series (Reds in '90) and that's a lot more than Manual can say. As a simple example, Pinella would let Arthur Rhodes pitch a FULL INNING - I wish Manual would let Marte do the same!

On a final note, the best season by a Sox manager that I've seen was Jeff Torborg in '90 - he had that team playing little ball like no other team I've seen.
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"I'm sorry that you don't like our manager," Williams says he told him.

"I'm sorry that you don't like our 3-4-5 hitters. Or our closer.

"I'm sorry that you don't like our third baseman and our shortstop. Or our left fielder and our right fielder.

"I'm sorry people feel this way about our club. But I also want you to know something about that:

"We don't care."

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  #14  
Old 04-05-2003, 07:56 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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As a tactician, Manuel is about as bad as they come.
As a clubhouse manager, keeping the team together and playing hard, he's top tier.
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  #15  
Old 04-05-2003, 08:24 AM
MikeKreevich MikeKreevich is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tragg
As a tactician, Manuel is about as bad as they come.
As a clubhouse manager, keeping the team together and playing hard, he's top tier.
I agree. His pitching staff management needs a lot of improvement.
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