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  #256  
Old 10-15-2019, 06:48 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Yeah, I’m nowhere near as comfortable as the rest of you are with saying that Nick Madrigal is guaranteed to be good enough to be an everyday major league player. Based on what he has done so far, I see a potentially fatal flaw in his game that may never be corrected. I also think that the possibility of him not being good enough to be an everyday major league player is much higher than the rest of you do.

So I’ll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Since you weren't around here back then I can only imagine what you'd have posted when we traded a genuine power bat LF with a suspect glove for a singles hitting LF with a suspect glove. Turmed out that it only won us a WS.
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  #257  
Old 10-15-2019, 08:13 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Since you weren't around here back then I can only imagine what you'd have posted when we traded a genuine power bat LF with a suspect glove for a singles hitting LF with a suspect glove. Turmed out that it only won us a WS.
I was around, and I liked the trade. I thought we needed a true leadoff guy, and Podsednik had a 70+ steal season on his résumé.

I used to think a balanced lineup was the best way to score runs. Then I saw the data prove me wrong.
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  #258  
Old 10-15-2019, 08:25 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
I was around, and I liked the trade. I thought we needed a true leadoff guy, and Podsednik had a 70+ steal season on his résumé.

I used to think a balanced lineup was the best way to score runs. Then I saw the data prove me wrong.
It might have been back then. Of course the baseball was actually a baseball not a golf ball on steroids.
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  #259  
Old 10-15-2019, 08:46 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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The 2005 White Sox still pounded the baseball.
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  #260  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:34 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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The 2005 White Sox still pounded the baseball.
And manufactured runs when appropriate. Remember the GW hit in the last game? An 8 hop ground ball up the middle.
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  #261  
Old 10-16-2019, 04:55 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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And manufactured runs when appropriate. Remember the GW hit in the last game? An 8 hop ground ball up the middle.
I know, I am just saying they still hit for power. As a whole the team was more balanced.
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  #262  
Old 10-16-2019, 06:11 AM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
I was around, and I liked the trade. I thought we needed a true leadoff guy, and Podsednik had a 70+ steal season on his résumé.

I used to think a balanced lineup was the best way to score runs. Then I saw the data prove me wrong.
So we won it despite Pods? Lotta people would disagree, stats be damned.
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  #263  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:27 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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I’m not worried about that. The guy is a superstar. He will thrive no matter what position he plays. I don’t think occasional defensive miscues at 2B will do much to wreck the confidence of a guy who can hit like that.
Disagree. He's not a robot. You cannot say with certainty that he will thrive at any position when we have 2 years that show different performance at different positions. This is where analytics and the eye test/old school philosophy conflict the most. From an analytics standpoint what you said makes sense. But from a real world eye test comfort-feeling perspective, it makes sense to just let Moncada stick at 3B and hope he continues to be the player he was last year.

And for the record, I don't think the Sox are going to pursue Rendon at all. I think they are going to make pitching a priority and address RF. Sprinkle in some bullpen help and that will be the offseason for the Sox.
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  #264  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:43 AM
slavko slavko is offline
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Disagree. He's not a robot. You cannot say with certainty that he will thrive at any position when we have 2 years that show different performance at different positions. This is where analytics and the eye test/old school philosophy conflict the most. From an analytics standpoint what you said makes sense. But from a real world eye test comfort-feeling perspective, it makes sense to just let Moncada stick at 3B and hope he continues to be the player he was last year.

And for the record, I don't think the Sox are going to pursue Rendon at all. I think they are going to make pitching a priority and address RF. Sprinkle in some bullpen help and that will be the offseason for the Sox.
It was cute the way sorting out the debris made the bullpen go from horrible to iffy over the season. Colome had the stats catch up with him by September, however. A few new arms might do it. I for one didn't think Moncada was that bad at 2B. I liked the way he stood in there and turned two.
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  #265  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:02 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
Disagree. He's not a robot. You cannot say with certainty that he will thrive at any position when we have 2 years that show different performance at different positions. This is where analytics and the eye test/old school philosophy conflict the most. From an analytics standpoint what you said makes sense. But from a real world eye test comfort-feeling perspective, it makes sense to just let Moncada stick at 3B and hope he continues to be the player he was last year.

And for the record, I don't think the Sox are going to pursue Rendon at all. I think they are going to make pitching a priority and address RF. Sprinkle in some bullpen help and that will be the offseason for the Sox.
Those 2 years of performance differences also took place in his first and second seasons in the majors.

It has nothing to do with being a robot. The guy is going to be one of the elite players in all of MLB. If I can move him to 2B and have another of the elite players in all of MLB play 3B, I jump all over it. They were all set to do it if they landed Machado, so I don’t see why Rendon should be different.
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  #266  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:33 PM
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Chez Chez is offline
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It has nothing to do with being a robot. The guy is going to be one of the elite players in all of MLB. If I can move him to 2B and have another of the elite players in all of MLB play 3B, I jump all over it. They were all set to do it if they landed Machado, so I don’t see why Rendon should be different.
I see the merit in your argument. I would prefer to keep Moncada at 3B and a spot for Madrigal at 2B. Do you think Rendon would agree to DH?
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  #267  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:40 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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I see the merit in your argument. I would prefer to keep Moncada at 3B and a spot for Madrigal at 2B. Do you think Rendon would agree to DH?
Rendon probably would be due for a position switch in 2022 or 2023 anyway. Moncada would move back to 3B, Rendon would move to 1B.
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  #268  
Old 10-16-2019, 03:15 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Those 2 years of performance differences also took place in his first and second seasons in the majors.

It has nothing to do with being a robot. The guy is going to be one of the elite players in all of MLB. If I can move him to 2B and have another of the elite players in all of MLB play 3B, I jump all over it. They were all set to do it if they landed Machado, so I don’t see why Rendon should be different.
He's an elite player now after a year at 3B when his rookie season wasn't elite. For as much as I want to believe he can continue being elite if he was moved back to 2B, there is the possibility he regresses. He could regress next year as well sticking at 3B, but why risk it? And the only reason he was going to move back to 2B if they signed Machado was also due to Moncada not playing 3B. Now that he's had a year at 3B, has claimed he feels more comfortable at 3B, has filled the black hole that 3B was for this team, you want to move him. And on top of that, you then want to move him back to 3B again in a couple years if they sign Rendon and move him to DH. Not gonna happen.
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  #269  
Old 10-16-2019, 04:01 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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He could regress next year as well sticking at 3B, but why risk it?
To put elite bats as far up the defensive hierarchy as possible. That’s why.
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  #270  
Old 10-16-2019, 09:08 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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To put elite bats as far up the defensive hierarchy as possible. That’s why.
I agree that this team would be better with Rendon and Moncada at 3B/2B then with Moncada/Madrigal. It's kind of silly to argue otherwise - Rendon is an all-star and Madrigal hasn't done anything yet. However, I don't think Rendon should be the priority. If his signing means that the Sox aren't in on the "big 2" SP options, it would be disappointing.
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