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  #31  
Old 10-04-2019, 06:57 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
It could be about all the Cubs players we want from their fire sale this offseason.
Exactly. Itís Cub-related.
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  #32  
Old 10-04-2019, 10:58 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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I want Kris Bryant. Move Moncada to 2nd, or let him play outfield. I don't care. Dude is a stud, and it'll burn Cubs fans as an added bonus.
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  #33  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:57 AM
TDog TDog is online now
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Yeah, you're just wrong. Managers in any position, whether baseball or not, have responsibilities to the organization. I can't have a serious discussion with someone about management when they don't accept basic fundamental concepts. Cheers.

There is a difference between being committed to an organization, as Tommy Lasorda was and Walter Alston before him, as Al Lopez was to the White Sox when he was in a White Sox uniform, as Tony LaRussa or Jim Leyland were with whatever organization was paying them and submitting to micromanagement. In baseball, and not limited to baseball, there are organizational differences that come into conflict with managerial objectives, although in the big picture, both business management and field manager should have winning as a goal.

The conflict is most acutely illustrated with Connie Mack, whose business and competitive interest were in constant conflict. As field manager and general manager, he assembled a couple of great teams years apart. As the business manager, he sold off the players for a profit. In his autobiography, My 50 years in Baseball, he wrote that he found it best to have a team that was in the middle of the league standings, playing well enough to generate interest and attendance but not to the point where the players had to be paid premium salaries.

What they don't teach in business school, which is one reason why so many working people loathe their managers, is that some industries require the employees producing the product to be free of business interests for the company to succeed in its mission, unless you consider the mission exclusively one of profit. At the best newspapers, reporters and the editors who supervise them don't allow advertising to dictate content. They take some pride in lost advertising revenue inspired by strong accurate reporting that means something in their communities. The mission is public interest. I was at a meeting once where the editor was talking about cuts and limitations being made because corporate (thousands of miles away) believed our 6 percent profit rate was in need of improvement, but it didn't affect the way we attacked the news. In baseball, you hire a manager to win, to develop, whatever the expectations may be. A manager with integrity owes has to be free to do what he finds necessary to meet the on-field objectives, free of worrying about corporate interests (or in the case of Pete Rose, whether he has money on the game).

I have the ultimate respect for Chuck Tanner as a manager because of a glimpse I saw into his integrity one Sunday afternoon in 1973. Stan Bahnsen, I believe, was pitching a terrific game. In the late innings, he got into a bit of trouble. Tanner went to the mound and took him out. Coming back to the dugout, toward my seat behind third base, the crowd rose and gave him a standing ovation. He tipped his cap. When Tanner followed, the cheers turned to loud boos. Tanner proudly tipped his cap, and the boos turned to cheers. I don't even remember what happened next, if Terry Forster lost the lead or if the Sox won on that gray afternoon. My big take-away was that Tanner appreciated that we cared and understood we disagreed. But he was going to do what he believed was right. Ultimately, his interests were the same as ours, but he wasn't going to question his judgment because he knew it was unpopular.

A manager has an obligation to do what he believes is right and won't be micromanaged. Of course, there are field managers who should be replaced, but you the idea that a business manager can quantify a field manager's attributes and deficiencies in an empirical evaluation is a self-important business fantasy. Good managers won't work in situations where they are being micromanaged. Baseball field managers made bad decisions for a variety of reasons, often when there is no good decision to be made. But businesses filled with MBAs make a lot of bad decisions, often because they don't understand unique aspects of the effects of their textbook management on their enterprises.

It's difficult to have a serious discussion about a baseball matter on a baseball site with someone who has an inflated notion about the aspects of rigid business accountability to the mission of a major league baseball manager.
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  #34  
Old 10-04-2019, 01:23 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I want Kris Bryant. Move Moncada to 2nd, or let him play outfield. I don't care. Dude is a stud, and it'll burn Cubs fans as an added bonus.
Except Moncada is not a good 2nd baseman and has never played the outfield- why solve a non existant problem? We have a great long term, cheap solution at 3rd (much better glove than Bryant)- our problem is we need a RF- why not solve that problem with an outfielder vs. jacking around a premier young talent?
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  #35  
Old 10-04-2019, 01:56 PM
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I want Kris Bryant. Move Moncada to 2nd, or let him play outfield. I don't care. Dude is a stud, and it'll burn Cubs fans as an added bonus.
Bryant has played the OF for the Cubs. I'd rather stick Bryant in RF and leave Moncada at 3B. Everyone happy? Blandman? TomBradley72?
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  #36  
Old 10-04-2019, 02:16 PM
TommyJohn TommyJohn is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
Bryant has played the OF for the Cubs. I'd rather stick Bryant in RF and leave Moncada at 3B. Everyone happy? Blandman? TomBradley72?

NO!!! I want Bryant!! And if they don't get him, then they're cheap and don't want to win!!!
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  #37  
Old 10-04-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
It could be about all the Cubs players we want from their fire sale this offseason.
I don't see a fire sale in their near future. They will trim at the edges, but keep the Bryant/Baez/Rizzo core together for at least two more years. If the 2021 season is going sideways, I can see Bryant being dealt at the deadline.
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  #38  
Old 10-04-2019, 03:47 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
Bryant has played the OF for the Cubs. I'd rather stick Bryant in RF and leave Moncada at 3B. Everyone happy? Blandman? TomBradley72?
Still a "no" for me- with Eloy in LF, I don't think 2 sub par defensive outfielders is a good idea combined with the need to trade meaningful prospects to get him.

I would much rather go the FA route- get a solid RF to plug in for 2-3 years while more of our outfield prospects develop and hold on to prospects overall.
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  #39  
Old 10-04-2019, 04:08 PM
longtimefan longtimefan is offline
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The Cubs have to get major league ready player(s) for Bryant so who are you ready to give up? The Cubs are in their "window" now and maybe for a couple more years. They would probably want someone off the Sox roster plus more (other major leaguers and/or prospects). Would you jump at getting Bryant, if the Cubs wanted Moncada and Robert? I certainly wouldn't jump at that deal. If we needed a 3rd baseman (which we don't), there is a very good one heading to FA soon that wouldn't cost us our talent.
Putting the obvious need of pitching aside, I would like a RF'er who has offense skills and can play solid defense. Kris is a high skilled offensive player but I'm not convinced he is a good defensive RF'er.
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  #40  
Old 10-04-2019, 04:10 PM
DaveIsHere DaveIsHere is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
Bryant has played the OF for the Cubs. I'd rather stick Bryant in RF and leave Moncada at 3B. Everyone happy? Blandman? TomBradley72?

I want no part of some one that wore that awful jersey
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  #41  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:15 PM
chisox123 chisox123 is offline
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Hiring David Ross as the manager would be a White Sox move.
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  #42  
Old 10-15-2019, 01:59 PM
TomC727 TomC727 is offline
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Originally Posted by chisox123 View Post
Hiring David Ross as the manager would be a White Sox move.
The cubs need that yes man for the front office.
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  #43  
Old 10-15-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveIsHere View Post
I want no part of some one that wore that awful jersey
To paraphrase Leo Durocher in 42, "If Bryant can help us win, and everything I have seen says he can, then he is going to play on this ball club."
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  #44  
Old 10-15-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
To paraphrase Leo Durocher in 42, "If Bryant can help us win, and everything I have seen says he can, then he is going to play on this ball club."

I recognized the source quote, but was confused because Durocher said it in '47. It took me a moment, because I haven't gotten around to watching the movie 42.

I don't know that the same sentiments should be applied to Bryant.
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  #45  
Old 10-20-2019, 12:26 PM
MrX MrX is offline
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Cubs bringing in Astros bench coach Joe Espada for a 2nd interview.
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