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  #91  
Old 06-25-2019, 01:20 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Is it the majority of the people who want the nets extended or a few squeaky wheels? Or maybe it's somewhere in between with a majority retreating to the it's-probably-for-the-best position. I can't imagine the nets are being extended by popular demand.

Unless I'm missing something, i.e. the Illinois Legislature being on the verge of requiring the extension of nets to the poles for all professional baseball venues in the state, this sounds more like an action, if not an overreaction, that would make attending Sox games less attractive for many. Forget about how cool the stadium looks, whether the seats are blue or green or if you can see the skyline from your seats. Seriously, if I were growing up in Chicagoland today, there is an excellent chance I wouldn't be growing up a White Sox fan.
Your hatred/disdain for every single thing this organization does has now led you to have the opinion that the Organization is OVERREACTING to fans being injured by flying baseballs. And this perceived overreaction to fans being hit in the face by a baseball traveling at 100mph into the stands somehow correlates to you not being a White Sox fan if you were currently growing up in the Chicago area. You are also completely ignoring what other organizations are planning on implementing and also seemingly ignoring the dozens of conversations locally and nationally about extending the netting in MLB ballparks. You are entitled to your opinion, but this is a very ridiculous opinion to have and just makes you look bad.
  #92  
Old 06-25-2019, 01:23 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is online now
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Originally Posted by lpneck View Post
Why does this have to be about litigation to some of you?

Why can't it be that the White Sox (and the other MLB teams who will follow suit), don't want to see their paying customers injured, and don't want their employees to have to deal with the emotional fall out of potentially significantly injuring someone?

You know what hurts attendance worse than netting or a team that hasn't made the postseason in a decade? News coverage of a dead little girl or a grandma who gets hit with a line drive.

Stop with the "personal accountability" stuff. There are hundreds of seats 150 feet from home plate currently not covered by netting. A ball hit with an exit velocity of 100 mph gets there in almost exactly 1 second from the time off the bat. It's not irresponsible when a fan who is in a plastic seat surrounded by people on all sides doesn't dodge a 100 mph line drive in less than a second.

I don't like sitting behind the netting either. Lucky for me I prefer the front rows of the upper deck right behind home plate. But I am glad that the White Sox and other MLB teams are tired of their customers being injured and are finally addressing ways to make sure they are safe.

Excellent post.

For some odd reason, when my kids were young, I could not get them to keep their eyes totally glued on the plate for every single pitch for 3 straight hours. Incredible, isn't it? For some crazy reason, I used to think that was just common kid behavior, but now I know better that I'm just one of those namby pamby parents who is a failure at teaching my kids personal responsibility.

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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
I think the personal accountability argument is spot-on. Perhaps the Sox could employ some sort of test that can be administered to determine if a fan has the reaction time required to fend off a 100 mph foul ball. They could also close off those seats to older and younger fans and make sure they're filled with fans blessed with great hand/eye coordination and quick-twitch muscles who are at the ready after each and every pitch during a 3+ hour game.

Great idea, does someone on this site still have Brooks Boyer's e-mail? Anyone who fails just shouldn't get box seats, period. Have fun in the upper deck or outfield, folks! And what better way to get young fans to enjoy the ballpark experience than to banish them to the outer reaches of the park!
  #93  
Old 06-25-2019, 02:37 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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My opinion is irrelevant because I'll likely never have the opportunity to see another White Sox game in Chicago, but one of my seating requirements when I go to baseball games is that I not sit behind a screen or a net. Give a group of 13-year-old boys a choice, and they won't want to sit behind a screen or a net. If the Cubs don't extend the nets to the foul poles, it will be one more point on people's list about why Wrigley Field is more fun that the current iteration of New Comiskey. The net, though, would have avoided the whole Bartman thing, though.

When I was working in Wisconsin (or 'Sconsin, depending on how on how for north or south you were from the Mars Cheese Castle and Bong Recreation Area), I loved driving down for weekend Sox games and when I was lucky, getting a seat in the front row deep down the first base line where for a couple of seasons there was a lone seat that hadn't gone to a season-ticket holder, where you could hear the heavy footsteps of the left fielder as you watched a drive coming toward you. Once during long-toss warmups with the starting pitcher, a ball got away from Mark Johnson and rolled to the three-foot wall in front of me. I picked it up and Mark Johnson signaled for me to throw it to him, but it never crossed my mind to do otherwise.

In Anaheim, Frank Thomas often signed autographs and interacted with fans. In 1994, just before the strike as it turned out, Sox fans were clustered down the right field line near the Sox players warming up. A young woman with pleaded with Alex Fernandez to sign her baby's baseball-like plush toy. He dropped what he dropped he glove and not only signed the ball, but held the baby for pictures. That was nearly 25 years ago, and I've wondered if that baby grew up to post on WSI, not remembering the incident, but having grown up with the story and the pictures.

I hate being behind a screen or a net because it separates me from the game, but it isn't just about the game. it's about being close to baseball. Extending the nets to the foul poles is an overreaction and is sure to diminish the baseball experience for many who love baseball and are learing to love it.
  #94  
Old 06-25-2019, 02:55 PM
DaveIsHere DaveIsHere is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
My opinion is irrelevant because I'll likely never have the opportunity to see another White Sox game in Chicago, but one of my seating requirements when I go to baseball games is that I not sit behind a screen or a net. Give a group of 13-year-old boys a choice, and they won't want to sit behind a screen or a net. If the Cubs don't extend the nets to the foul poles, it will be one more point on people's list about why Wrigley Field is more fun that the current iteration of New Comiskey. The net, though, would have avoided the whole Bartman thing, though.

When I was working in Wisconsin (or 'Sconsin, depending on how on how for north or south you were from the Mars Cheese Castle and Bong Recreation Area), I loved driving down for weekend Sox games and when I was lucky, getting a seat in the front row deep down the first base line where for a couple of seasons there was a lone seat that hadn't gone to a season-ticket holder, where you could hear the heavy footsteps of the left fielder as you watched a drive coming toward you. Once during long-toss warmups with the starting pitcher, a ball got away from Mark Johnson and rolled to the three-foot wall in front of me. I picked it up and Mark Johnson signaled for me to throw it to him, but it never crossed my mind to do otherwise.

In Anaheim, Frank Thomas often signed autographs and interacted with fans. In 1994, just before the strike as it turned out, Sox fans were clustered down the right field line near the Sox players warming up. A young woman with pleaded with Alex Fernandez to sign her baby's baseball-like plush toy. He dropped what he dropped he glove and not only signed the ball, but held the baby for pictures. That was nearly 25 years ago, and I've wondered if that baby grew up to post on WSI, not remembering the incident, but having grown up with the story and the pictures.

I hate being behind a screen or a net because it separates me from the game, but it isn't just about the game. it's about being close to baseball. Extending the nets to the foul poles is an overreaction and is sure to diminish the baseball experience for many who love baseball and are learing to love it.
Yes it pushes you farther away from the game in many aspects. Societal pampering at its best, ruining it for me anyway, obviously others don't feel that way, but I do. Next they will put boards up like a hockey ring in the outfield with nets above.......

Next on the 5:00 News "Man trips on stairs at ballpark, have we had enough? Do we need to remove the stairs before someone is seriously hurt?"
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  #95  
Old 06-25-2019, 03:43 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is online now
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Originally Posted by DaveIsHere View Post
Societal pampering at its best
Yes, that's what it is.

They should get rid of that plexiglass at hockey games, too. Bastards.
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  #96  
Old 06-25-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Is it the majority of the people who want the nets extended or a few squeaky wheels? Or maybe it's somewhere in between with a majority retreating to the it's-probably-for-the-best position. I can't imagine the nets are being extended by popular demand.

Unless I'm missing something, i.e. the Illinois Legislature being on the verge of requiring the extension of nets to the poles for all professional baseball venues in the state, this sounds more like an action, if not an overreaction, that would make attending Sox games less attractive for many. Forget about how cool the stadium looks, whether the seats are blue or green or if you can see the skyline from your seats. Seriously, if I were growing up in Chicagoland today, there is an excellent chance I wouldn't be growing up a White Sox fan.
Huh?

The nets take away nothing from the experience of watching the game. I went to a game in Japan last year where the nets go to the poles. After about three minutes, I did not notice them anymore, just like here.

Have you been to a MLB game and sat in the area with the nets yet? Better yet, if you sat in the upper deck or the outfield, there would be no nets, would that keep you a Sox fan?
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  #97  
Old 06-25-2019, 03:47 PM
DaveIsHere DaveIsHere is offline
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Yes, that's what it is.

They should get rid of that plexiglass at hockey games, too. Bastards.
Now you are talking!!
  #98  
Old 06-25-2019, 04:18 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Huh?

The nets take away nothing from the experience of watching the game. I went to a game in Japan last year where the nets go to the poles. After about three minutes, I did not notice them anymore, just like here. ...
My experience differs and I disagree. It's easier to adapt in the upper deck where I am farther from the game. And I scraped my hand on the roof covering the last rows of the upper deck down the leftfield line in 2000 when Frank Thomas doubled in Jose Valentin to beat the A's in the bottom of the 10th before the fireworks display.

When I've been to games in the Bay Area, especially San Francisco, where you generally can't sit down for less than $50, I sit in the upper deck but spend time at field level interacting with players and coaches before the game.

This isn't about liability, unless new laws are passed requiring the netting. The current law is settled and has nothing to do with the disclaimer on the back of the ticket I'm all about social and a passion for baseball, not that analytic computer game fad. This isn't even giving fans who don't want to sit behind the net an option. This has nothing to do with social justice and everything to do with separating fans from the game.

It would be easier to stay home and watch baseball on television. But it was my ballpark experiences that built my passion for the game.
  #99  
Old 06-25-2019, 05:00 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveIsHere View Post
Now you are talking!!
Netting should be considered for all baseball fields public or private.
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  #100  
Old 06-25-2019, 05:30 PM
DaveIsHere DaveIsHere is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Netting should be considered for all baseball fields public or private.

I agree to a certain extent.....all the way to the foul pouls is extreme to me.....soon it will be the whole damn field. At that point I will just watch on TV.
  #101  
Old 06-25-2019, 06:51 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
Your hatred/disdain for every single thing this organization does has now led you to have the opinion that the Organization is OVERREACTING to fans being injured by flying baseballs. And this perceived overreaction to fans being hit in the face by a baseball traveling at 100mph into the stands somehow correlates to you not being a White Sox fan if you were currently growing up in the Chicago area. You are also completely ignoring what other organizations are planning on implementing and also seemingly ignoring the dozens of conversations locally and nationally about extending the netting in MLB ballparks. You are entitled to your opinion, but this is a very ridiculous opinion to have and just makes you look bad.
I'm sorry if you think I look bad, but I don't hate everything about the White Sox organization. I dislike the baseball philosophy of the current GM and often disagreed with the actions of the previous GM. I hated the signing of Adam Dunn (when I was degraded for expressing my opinion) and even complaining about the inevitable Shields trade weeks before it was consummated. I know people int he ownership group. I don't think this team is going to be able to develop enough pitching or even sign enough pitching to compete in the next five years, but if I hated everything about the White Sox organization, I wouldn't care.

The fact is, I know people associated with the White Sox who know how much the team means to me. I've been to hundreds of games in my life, only about a dozen behind a net or a screen. I sat in corporate seats for the Sox home opener in 2003, just up the first baseline from the screen, so it was unobstructed, just a couple rows from the field. The night Buster Posey was injured in San Francisco, I was sitting close enough to hear it. I have never seen anyone hit in the face with a baseball. I've seen plenty of people hit in the face by drunks (in Milwaukee and Chicago), but no one is advocating banning sales of beer.

If you are afraid to get hit in the face wit a baseball, you can sit in the upper deck or in the outfield. If you go deep enough in the lower bowl, a foul line drive has little or no chance of reaching you anyway. Instead, you're saying that the open view of the game that has been around since the beginning of profession baseball is going to be closed off by a net because someone might might get hit. If you don't want to pay attention to the game or have members of your party that doesn't care enough about the game to be paying attention, maybe you should sit elsewhere.

I'm sorry if you think my opinion is ridiculous. It certainly isn't knee jerk, and it's well thought out. My opinions are well thought out, and I think this is clearly an overreaction. If you want to think your opinion out, you might extend your argument to political analogies, which we can't do in this forum.
  #102  
Old 06-25-2019, 07:27 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveIsHere View Post
I agree to a certain extent.....all the way to the foul pouls is extreme to me.....soon it will be the whole damn field. At that point I will just watch on TV.

It's sad, but it's the brave new world we live in.
  #103  
Old 06-25-2019, 07:54 PM
ChicagoG19 ChicagoG19 is offline
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I personally don't like the nets, but I understand. If it means a young child or a more senior person doesn't have to worry about being seriously injured or killed, I will sacrifice some of that enjoyment.
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Last edited by ChicagoG19; 06-26-2019 at 10:15 AM.
  #104  
Old 06-26-2019, 08:05 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
I'm sorry if you think I look bad, but I don't hate everything about the White Sox organization. I dislike the baseball philosophy of the current GM and often disagreed with the actions of the previous GM. I hated the signing of Adam Dunn (when I was degraded for expressing my opinion) and even complaining about the inevitable Shields trade weeks before it was consummated. I know people int he ownership group. I don't think this team is going to be able to develop enough pitching or even sign enough pitching to compete in the next five years, but if I hated everything about the White Sox organization, I wouldn't care.

The fact is, I know people associated with the White Sox who know how much the team means to me. I've been to hundreds of games in my life, only about a dozen behind a net or a screen. I sat in corporate seats for the Sox home opener in 2003, just up the first baseline from the screen, so it was unobstructed, just a couple rows from the field. The night Buster Posey was injured in San Francisco, I was sitting close enough to hear it. I have never seen anyone hit in the face with a baseball. I've seen plenty of people hit in the face by drunks (in Milwaukee and Chicago), but no one is advocating banning sales of beer.

If you are afraid to get hit in the face wit a baseball, you can sit in the upper deck or in the outfield. If you go deep enough in the lower bowl, a foul line drive has little or no chance of reaching you anyway. Instead, you're saying that the open view of the game that has been around since the beginning of profession baseball is going to be closed off by a net because someone might might get hit. If you don't want to pay attention to the game or have members of your party that doesn't care enough about the game to be paying attention, maybe you should sit elsewhere.

I'm sorry if you think my opinion is ridiculous. It certainly isn't knee jerk, and it's well thought out. My opinions are well thought out, and I think this is clearly an overreaction. If you want to think your opinion out, you might extend your argument to political analogies, which we can't do in this forum.
1. You don't need to keep reminding everyone every time you bring up Adam Dunn that you were against the move. You always do that and I don't understand why other than to make yourself feel better.


2. The view is not going to be closed off. It's not obstructed. I sat behind the Sox dugout in the 6th row a few weeks ago and had no issues with the netting. And as far as paying attention to the action on the field, it is nearly impossible to pay 100% attention to the field while the game is ongoing. As has been said before in this thread, there are multiple things that can happen that can divert your eyes from the field, and all it takes is one second to look away for something bad to potentially happen.


From what I can tell, you are putting your personal feelings into your opinion and not really taking into consideration what other people around you do at a game. If something can be done to prevent people from getting hurt but also might lessen the experience I'm willing to live with that. And please don't ever again insinuate that my opinions are not thought out.
  #105  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:30 AM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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This is an interesting character test that extends beyond just baseball. The prevailing argument against nets seems to be that certain folks don't like them because it impacts their enjoyment of the game. In other words, 'So what if extending the netting might save a life or prevent serious injuries to fans not blessed with cat-like reflexes? Too bad for them. I don't like nets.' That seems a bit selfish. I suppose the secondary argument is that this is just another attempt to coddle society and abdicate personal accountability but as has been pointed out, sometimes we have to be saved from ourselves. Trusting a fan to make a informed assessment of their hand/eye coordination and reflexes is just silly. I played baseball beyond high school and at 49, I'm not sure I'd be able to react to a tailing frozen rope - especially with one hand digging into a nacho helmet.

If death/injury wasn't a valid concern (it is) and I had my choice, of course I'd opt for the 'net-less' view. However, as we've seen, that isn't the case. Someone is going to die. Even someone who is hanging on every pitch and 'at the ready' could catch one in the head because another fan may deflect the ball or obstruct their view while trying to get out of the way.
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