White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
GO SOX! DSNB!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:13 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 6,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shes View Post
Seriously -- what more can you ask except that the guy stay on the field more often? He's been a stud and will be an elite player for the next decade.

Anyway, it'll cost 400M to get him, not 200M, so you can certainly count out the Sox, who have never even ponied up 70M for a single player.
A couple of years ago, a reporter was interviewing Bryce and mentioned 400M as the potential future value of his contract. Bryce's response was "don't sell me short, man" or something to that effect.

It's why I suspect he'll go for the biggest contract offered to him, rather than to NYY/LAD/CHC or whatever other team he is rumored to be a fan of at the moment.
__________________
"Hope...may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources...but its nature is to be extravagant, and those who go so far as to stake their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only when they are ruined."
-- Thucydides
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:48 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Plainfield
Posts: 11,592
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
When the numbers catch up to the hype then we'll talk.
When you say things like this, please realize the numbers are there to blow this idea up.

His 9.9 WAR season is one of the best seasons EVER by a player. I think there are maybe 2 or 3 active players who have had a better year, and it ranks in the top 60 best seasons ever.

This year, he put nearly 5 war in 111 games.

This 162 game average numbers are great. The comparisons to Abreu are kind of silly, mainly because of Harper's injuries. Sure, take 2017, they both had identical WAR of 4.7, similar power numbers, similar OPS, but it took Abreu 200 more ABs to get there.

Like I said, I am all for someone saying Harper isn't worth the money because you likely won't get many full seasons..... but holy cow, this is a 25 year old, who just turned 25, and is just entering the best years of his career.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:59 AM
Chez's Avatar
Chez Chez is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Clarendon Hills
Posts: 6,467
Default

I predict Harper will sign with the Cubs. And platoon in RF with Zobrist.
__________________
2018 Attendance Record: 3-3
All time Sox Attendance Tracker:

275-237.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:30 AM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North side, 60618
Posts: 2,546
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chez View Post
I predict Harper will sign with the Cubs. And platoon in RF with Zobrist.
Players who get big contracts don't typically go into platoons.
__________________

2014 PtC Score: 1
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:43 AM
Chez's Avatar
Chez Chez is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Clarendon Hills
Posts: 6,467
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
Players who get big contracts don't typically go into platoons.

Teal was implied. Sorry. Though Jason Heyward may disagree!
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:44 AM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Logan Square
Posts: 1,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSox2K3 View Post
I wouldn't mind having Harper on the Sox. You can't compare signing a 24 year old (forgive the term) superstar to signing a 31-year old low avg, high strikeout slugger (Dunn).

That being said, there is almost no chance the Sox will sign him. Considering what his asking price will be, the money might be better spent on other top-line FAs to fill whatever roster needs we have by 2019 or 2020.

I hope he stays in Washington. I hate the idea that so many of baseball's top stars end up in Yankee pinstripes (or in Boston) when they hit free agency. I certainly don't want him on the Cubs, either!
The Yankees are mostly home-grown these days. As for the Cubs, I'd be disgusted if Harper ends up there. It would have a
'Lebron taking his talents to South Beach' feel to it. The Cubs have already positioned themselves to make the playoffs at least the next two seasons barring injuries. I really don't want to see what the local media does if Harper comes to town.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-19-2017, 10:44 AM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North side, 60618
Posts: 2,546
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chez View Post
Teal was implied. Sorry. Though Jason Heyward may disagree!
Touche!
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10-19-2017, 01:00 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
When you say things like this, please realize the numbers are there to blow this idea up.

His 9.9 WAR season is one of the best seasons EVER by a player. I think there are maybe 2 or 3 active players who have had a better year, and it ranks in the top 60 best seasons ever.

This year, he put nearly 5 war in 111 games.

This 162 game average numbers are great. The comparisons to Abreu are kind of silly, mainly because of Harper's injuries. Sure, take 2017, they both had identical WAR of 4.7, similar power numbers, similar OPS, but it took Abreu 200 more ABs to get there.

Like I said, I am all for someone saying Harper isn't worth the money because you likely won't get many full seasons..... but holy cow, this is a 25 year old, who just turned 25, and is just entering the best years of his career.
The numbers are what they are. There are all sorts of caveats about age and injury, etc. but reality is that at this moment in time Abreu has done more in four years than Harper has in six. I'm not making any sort of judgment call in saying that, simply pointing out the facts.

Like I said, I think Harper is a superb ball player and will likely only get better. I just don't see a need to shell out such big dollars for him or tons of prospects for Stanton or Trout or anyone else.

Quote:
but it took Abreu 200 more ABs to get there.
And as I showed, in two more years, and basically one more years worth of games and at-bats, Harper barely has more hits, homers, RBI, etc than Abreu has. So let's call that one a draw.

As for war... it's useful but I'll take real stats over war any day.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10-19-2017, 01:46 PM
blurry blurry is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
As for war... it's useful but I'll take real stats over war any day.
WAR is a real stat. It's a summation of a player's statistics into a single metric which defines how good they play versus the average player. Even if you ignore WAR, you aren't taking into account how much better of a defender and baserunner Harper is versus Abreu. There is a reason why Jose is playing first and not an outfield position.

A front office will probably give $400 million to Bryce Harper because he's probably worth it. The market will dictate as such. If the contract length is 10 years, he'll likely be worth the total amount by the end of the first 7 years in terms of his production and marketability (tickets, jersey sales, TV ratings) for the team.

I'd love for the Sox to go for broke for him.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:06 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
The Blind Squirrel that finally found an acorn.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 10,640
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blurry View Post
WAR is a real stat. It's a summation of a player's statistics into a single metric which defines how good they play versus the average player. Even if you ignore WAR, you aren't taking into account how much better of a defender and baserunner Harper is versus Abreu. There is a reason why Jose is playing first and not an outfield position.

A front office will probably give $400 million to Bryce Harper because he's probably worth it. The market will dictate as such. If the contract length is 10 years, he'll likely be worth the total amount by the end of the first 7 years in terms of his production and marketability (tickets, jersey sales, TV ratings) for the team.

I'd love for the Sox to go for broke for him.
There is also a reason why I havent heard about any teams knocking on the Sox door for Abreu even though they are in full rebuild mode. And then there is a reason why everyone is lining up for when Harper becomes FA.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:20 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blurry View Post
WAR is a real stat. It's a summation of a player's statistics into a single metric which defines how good they play versus the average player. Even if you ignore WAR, you aren't taking into account how much better of a defender and baserunner Harper is versus Abreu. There is a reason why Jose is playing first and not an outfield position.

A front office will probably give $400 million to Bryce Harper because he's probably worth it. The market will dictate as such. If the contract length is 10 years, he'll likely be worth the total amount by the end of the first 7 years in terms of his production and marketability (tickets, jersey sales, TV ratings) for the team.

I'd love for the Sox to go for broke for him.
Sorry but no. HR's, hits, runs, doubles, RBI, b.avg. OBP, S.Pct, are real stats. WAR is someones best approximation of what they think that all means in a conglomeration. And there are several different WAR metrics out there because people can't agree on how best to calculate that conglomeration.

It has its uses but the fact remains that Jose has produced in 4 years what Harper has barely managed in 6... and in some categories... hasn't.

That's reality.

And yeah, there are ways that Harper is better, OBP being the big one. And I have no problems with people saying Harper is a better player and that they'd rather have him.

But that doesn't change the numbers and the numbers tell a very interesting story.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:22 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
There is also a reason why I havent heard about any teams knocking on the Sox door for Abreu even though they are in full rebuild mode. And then there is a reason why everyone is lining up for when Harper becomes FA.
Which is unrelated to my post about their statistical comparison... and doesn't change the statistical comparison one iota.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:36 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 22,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
Players who get big contracts don't typically go into platoons.
I hate when teal is proven to have to be used.
__________________
Ridiculousness across all sports:

(1) "You have no valid opinion because you never played the game."
(2) "Stats are irrelevant. This guy just doesn't know how to win."
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:38 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 22,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
Sorry but no. HR's, hits, runs, doubles, RBI, b.avg. OBP, S.Pct, are real stats. WAR is someones best approximation of what they think that all means in a conglomeration. And there are several different WAR metrics out there because people can't agree on how best to calculate that conglomeration.

It has its uses but the fact remains that Jose has produced in 4 years what Harper has barely managed in 6... and in some categories... hasn't.

That's reality.

And yeah, there are ways that Harper is better, OBP being the big one. And I have no problems with people saying Harper is a better player and that they'd rather have him.

But that doesn't change the numbers and the numbers tell a very interesting story.
And each one of those conglomerations has Harper far better than Abreu.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:43 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
The Blind Squirrel that finally found an acorn.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 10,640
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post

But that doesn't change the numbers and the numbers tell a very interesting story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
Which is unrelated to my post about their statistical comparison... and doesn't change the statistical comparison one iota.
And the interesting story is that the stats you provided are meaningless?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:07 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.