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  #61  
Old 02-22-2017, 03:54 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobo View Post
Here's the article, should be able to read:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...222-story.html
Kobo:

Thanks!

Lip
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  #62  
Old 02-22-2017, 08:31 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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More on Avi...

http://www.southsidesox.com/2017/2/2...ason-tradition
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  #63  
Old 02-22-2017, 09:13 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is online now
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Yup, the problem with Avi is not his weight, the problem is he is just a really bad baseball player.

But for this year, whatever, let him hit 4th for all 162.... Seth Beer
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  #64  
Old 02-23-2017, 01:03 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Yup, the problem with Avi is not his weight, the problem is he is just a really bad baseball player.

But for this year, whatever, let him hit 4th for all 162.... Seth Beer
Exactly. Many guys just aren't good enough to be more than a replacement level MLB player. Avi appears to be one of them.
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  #65  
Old 02-23-2017, 05:00 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Yup, the problem with Avi is not his weight, the problem is he is just a really bad baseball player.

But for this year, whatever, let him hit 4th for all 162.... Seth Beer
If playing Avi inhibits the development of a single player that that would be a big mistake. This strategy becomes a bigger mistake when you plan to lose in order to draft some kid that hits well in college.

That would be an approach that would have the last ten years of White Sox management fingerprints all over it.
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  #66  
Old 02-23-2017, 06:32 AM
MarksBrokenFoot MarksBrokenFoot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
If playing Avi inhibits the development of a single player that that would be a big mistake. This strategy becomes a bigger mistake when you plan to lose in order to draft some kid that hits well in college.

That would be an approach that would have the last ten years of White Sox management fingerprints all over it.
That's ridiculous. Stockpiling talent in the minors is the antithesis of Williams tenure. He's always blown away prospects on garbage vets. You can say trying to lose is a bad idea, but you cannot claim that it's par for the course with this front office. This is completely uncharted territory.

Aside from that, Avi playing 162 games doesn't hurt anybody. There is no minor league outfielder he's blocking. Nobody is ready to come up. We're going to suck, that's just a fact. Avi is exactly the kind of player you want on this team for a terrible season. He either figures it out and becomes a piece of the future, or he flames out once and for all. Take a look at Alex Gordon's career sometime and tell me how smart it is to fold on a guy who's 25 and talented. If you aren't ready to win, you buy all the lottery tickets you can.
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  #67  
Old 02-23-2017, 07:27 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by MarksBrokenFoot View Post
If you aren't ready to win, you buy all the lottery tickets you can.
In the real world, buying all the lottery tickets you can is a surefire way to bankrupt yourself.

Avi will not be on the next good White Sox team; the chances are high that he will be out of baseball before the Sox are good again.

He should be released, but if the Sox are tanking the season, he is worth keeping for that reason alone.
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  #68  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:18 AM
Zisk77 Zisk77 is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
In the real world, buying all the lottery tickets you can is a surefire way to bankrupt yourself.

Avi will not be on the next good White Sox team; the chances are high that he will be out of baseball before the Sox are good again.

He should be released, but if the Sox are tanking the season, he is worth keeping for that reason alone.
Ok so the analogy wasn't perfect. How about when putting some of your money in a 401k you want to buy as many blue chip stocks as possible rather than just one, because some will still fail but most won't. Thats what the sox are doing. Acquiring as many blue chips prospects some will fail. Avi is a high risk stock that is not looking good right now, but still could pull through. A genetic stock that could cure cystic fibrosis, but has been producing deleterious side effects.
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  #69  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:19 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarksBrokenFoot View Post
That's ridiculous. Stockpiling talent in the minors is the antithesis of Williams tenure. He's always blown away prospects on garbage vets. You can say trying to lose is a bad idea, but you cannot claim that it's par for the course with this front office. This is completely uncharted territory.

Aside from that, Avi playing 162 games doesn't hurt anybody. There is no minor league outfielder he's blocking. Nobody is ready to come up. We're going to suck, that's just a fact. Avi is exactly the kind of player you want on this team for a terrible season. He either figures it out and becomes a piece of the future, or he flames out once and for all. Take a look at Alex Gordon's career sometime and tell me how smart it is to fold on a guy who's 25 and talented. If you aren't ready to win, you buy all the lottery tickets you can.
This is correct. You need some stipgap replacemnet types on a rebuilding roster. Avi fits that mode (and at least *arguably* has *some* chance of showing something, unlike, say, filling the spot with a Jeff Francoeur).
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  #70  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:22 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zisk77 View Post
Ok so the analogy wasn't perfect. How about when putting some of your money in a 401k you want to buy as many blue chip stocks as possible rather than just one, because some will still fail but most won't. Thats what the sox are doing. Acquiring as many blue chips prospects some will fail. Avi is a high risk stock that is not looking good right now, but still could pull through. A genetic stock that could cure cystic fibrosis, but has been producing deleterious side effects.
Avi is a penny stock in a company that makes an easy fat loss remedy. The stock is cheap because the product doesn't work.
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  #71  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:49 AM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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The comparison to Alex Gordon is a decent one. Gordon played two full mediocre seasons at 23 and 24 then was relegated to part time duty (injury and minors) at 25 and 26 before turning it around at age 27. Even then he never showed the power that was expected of him. Some power but not big power.

At age 25 Garcia has just put in two full seasons of mediocre baseball. Their slash lines aren't all that different through those ages though Gordon had a lot more doubles leading to a higher s.pct.

At this point I am no longer expect Garcia to turn it around and realize his potential but it's not impossible either. Gordon has turned into a decent player whose real value is defensive (something I don't think we'll ever say about Avi) but whose hitting has become good (but not great).

Avi's problem is his swing. He beats the ball into the ground and at the major league level those turn into outs. He has to recreate his swing not just tweak it. I am doubtful that will happen.
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  #72  
Old 02-23-2017, 10:21 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
If playing Avi inhibits the development of a single player that that would be a big mistake. This strategy becomes a bigger mistake when you plan to lose in order to draft some kid that hits well in college.

That would be an approach that would have the last ten years of White Sox management fingerprints all over it.
I don't know what White Sox management office you've been watching for the past 10 years, but the one I've been watching has been going for it every year and failing miserably. It is a statistical fact that the higher you draft, the better your chance of acquiring an all-star talent. Using 2017 to develop your players in the minors would be the best thing the White Sox could do. Rushing them up to the majors and hoping for the best would be the worst.
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  #73  
Old 02-23-2017, 04:26 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarksBrokenFoot View Post
That's ridiculous. Stockpiling talent in the minors is the antithesis of Williams tenure. He's always blown away prospects on garbage vets. You can say trying to lose is a bad idea, but you cannot claim that it's par for the course with this front office. This is completely uncharted territory.

Aside from that, Avi playing 162 games doesn't hurt anybody. There is no minor league outfielder he's blocking. Nobody is ready to come up. We're going to suck, that's just a fact. Avi is exactly the kind of player you want on this team for a terrible season. He either figures it out and becomes a piece of the future, or he flames out once and for all. Take a look at Alex Gordon's career sometime and tell me how smart it is to fold on a guy who's 25 and talented. If you aren't ready to win, you buy all the lottery tickets you can.
The Sox could put out an OF of Tilson, Liriano, Engel and May. Engel and May might not be the most promising of prospects, but I'd think if theyre not ready by now they never will so might as well give them a shot. Of course, there's room for all five on the roster.
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  #74  
Old 02-23-2017, 07:29 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White
The comparison to Alex Gordon is a decent one.
"Young Alex Gordon" was superior defensively to what "young Avi Garcia" is defensively. I know it's a corner outfield spot, but that difference cannot be ignored.
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  #75  
Old 02-23-2017, 08:12 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
"Young Alex Gordon" was superior defensively to what "young Avi Garcia" is defensively. I know it's a corner outfield spot, but that difference cannot be ignored.
Quite right. Which is why I didn't ignore it.

Quote:
Gordon has turned into a decent player whose real value is defensive (something I don't think we'll ever say about Avi)
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