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  #316  
Old 06-13-2018, 03:29 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is online now
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
That's what I saw too. He was pitching with authority.
That tells me that the velocity drop IS in his mechanics after all. Stone was also alluding to that in the broadcast, if I remember correctly. Also talked about his front side flying wide open whenever he would throw his fastball high and wide to LH hitters...so it's becoming increasingly evident that: 1) his struggles are mechanical and, 2) he's starting to get a better mastery of them (albeit, slower than any of us would like).

Also of note was that, even though he wasn't locating his curveball for strikes I can't remember it having that much break before in 2018. Something's starting to go right for this kid, but it's going to take some time.
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  #317  
Old 06-13-2018, 04:05 PM
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That tells me that the velocity drop IS in his mechanics after all. Stone was also alluding to that in the broadcast, if I remember correctly. Also talked about his front side flying wide open whenever he would throw his fastball high and wide to LH hitters...so it's becoming increasingly evident that: 1) his struggles are mechanical and, 2) he's starting to get a better mastery of them (albeit, slower than any of us would like).

Also of note was that, even though he wasn't locating his curveball for strikes I can't remember it having that much break before in 2018. Something's starting to go right for this kid, but it's going to take some time.

And if his problems are due to his mechanics, then one could argue that Gio is better off working through them under Cooper's watch than in Charlotte. Of course, one could have made the same argument for Fulmer (though, as pointed out earlier, Fulmer was burning through the bullpen every start).
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  #318  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
That tells me that the velocity drop IS in his mechanics after all. Stone was also alluding to that in the broadcast, if I remember correctly. Also talked about his front side flying wide open whenever he would throw his fastball high and wide to LH hitters...so it's becoming increasingly evident that: 1) his struggles are mechanical and, 2) he's starting to get a better mastery of them (albeit, slower than any of us would like).

Also of note was that, even though he wasn't locating his curveball for strikes I can't remember it having that much break before in 2018. Something's starting to go right for this kid, but it's going to take some time.
All of that matches exactly what I thought I was seeing. Now maybe it’s a one game fluke but definitely want to find out.
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  #319  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:22 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is online now
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I wave the white flag here and call for the shuttle to Charlotte. Yikes. I will say he is very, very good at not getting whiplash from turning around to watch crushed balls fly.
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  #320  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:36 PM
wxkid23 wxkid23 is offline
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7.23 now. Again, something has to be done here. Worst starter in baseball
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  #321  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:42 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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I wave the white flag here and call for the shuttle to Charlotte. Yikes. I will say he is very, very good at not getting whiplash from turning around to watch crushed balls fly.
You send him to Charlotte, you might as well be giving up on him now. Are you sure that you think he's never going to be an MLB pitcher?(at the very least here) If so, you send him to Charlotte. He's going to be caught in a numbers game next spring while being out of options, so I don't know why anyone wants him to go down unless you're absolutely convinced he's never going to be an MLB pitcher, or at the very least he's never going to figure it out with the Sox.
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  #322  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:47 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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You send him to Charlotte, you might as well be giving up on him now. Are you sure that you think he's never going to be an MLB pitcher?(at the very least here) If so, you send him to Charlotte. He's going to be caught in a numbers game next spring while being out of options, so I don't know why anyone wants him to go down unless you're absolutely convinced he's never going to be an MLB pitcher, or at the very least he's never going to figure it out with the Sox.
The issue is that we have talent in the minors (Stephens) that has proven himself more than Giolito ever has. You can create arguments as much as you want, but what are we working with here?

The guy throws an out of control 92 to 94 with no control on his off speed.

If this was a Kopech arm I would gladly trot him out there. At his best he is, what, a fringe fifth starter.

Look, you have organizational depth for a reason.

At this moment, we have Stephens with Adam's and Kopech a couple of steps behind them. Then Dunning and Hansen. Then Cease and some other pitcher that is in our system.

Building depth gives you the chance to cut your losses.

People have been making excuses for Giolito for a while now. When will he regain his fastball? How will he learn to keep his body compact on delivery?

Make no mistake, with Madrigal in our system, the same will apply for Moncada if he does not begin showing promise in a year or two.
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  #323  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:51 PM
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Question is can he start minimizing the mistake pitches. He had 6K today and only 2BB. He made two mistakes and it cost him 5 runs.

I agree sending him down doesn't accomplish anything.
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  #324  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:56 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986
You send him to Charlotte, you might as well be giving up on him now. Are you sure that you think he's never going to be an MLB pitcher?(at the very least here) If so, you send him to Charlotte. He's going to be caught in a numbers game next spring while being out of options, so I don't know why anyone wants him to go down unless you're absolutely convinced he's never going to be an MLB pitcher, or at the very least he's never going to figure it out with the Sox.
Where is this “numbers game?” Giolito and Fulmer will be given 2019 to prove whether or not they are rotation-worthy. It makes no difference roster-wise whether Giolito’s AAA service comes now or in 2019. The only difference it makes is if people are expecting or pressing for the 2019 team to contend—which they shouldn’t.

This is every bit a bad as Fulmer’s performance was, and he was demoted for it. It’s time to do the same thing here.
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  #325  
Old 06-16-2018, 04:45 PM
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Where is this “numbers game?” Giolito and Fulmer will be given 2019 to prove whether or not they are rotation-worthy. It makes no difference roster-wise whether Giolito’s AAA service comes now or in 2019. The only difference it makes is if people are expecting or pressing for the 2019 team to contend—which they shouldn’t.

This is every bit a bad as Fulmer’s performance was, and he was demoted for it. It’s time to do the same thing here.
This is well stated.
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  #326  
Old 06-16-2018, 05:12 PM
RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Question is can he start minimizing the mistake pitches. He had 6K today and only 2BB. He made two mistakes and it cost him 5 runs.

I agree sending him down doesn't accomplish anything.
Maybe the one who needs to be sent down is Cooper! I really don't see him accomplishing anything with the young pitchers the Sox have.
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  #327  
Old 06-16-2018, 06:18 PM
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This is well stated.
Yes and no. The simple fact is Giolito is not as bad as Fulmer was. Fulmer completely lost it at the end and was regularly struggling to get out of the 2nd inning before being sent down.

Giolito made two mistakes today. They hurt him badly, but he had 6K in 5.1 and only gave up 6 hits while walking 2.

Giolito is showing signs of progress. People who don't see that must be reading the line off the box score. It's bluntly obvious he's improving. Is he there yet? No obviously not, but he's hardly Fulmer bad and it needs to be said.
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  #328  
Old 06-16-2018, 06:52 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Yes and no. The simple fact is Giolito is not as bad as Fulmer was. Fulmer completely lost it at the end and was regularly struggling to get out of the 2nd inning before being sent down.

Giolito made two mistakes today. They hurt him badly, but he had 6K in 5.1 and only gave up 6 hits while walking 2.

Giolito is showing signs of progress. People who don't see that must be reading the line off the box score. It's bluntly obvious he's improving. Is he there yet? No obviously not, but he's hardly Fulmer bad and it needs to be said.
It's just not two mistakes. Need to watch the games, I agree. There is a lot of loud contact out there. His control is improving but as a result there is also a lot of hard contact there.
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  #329  
Old 06-16-2018, 06:55 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile
Yes and no. The simple fact is Giolito is not as bad as Fulmer was. Fulmer completely lost it at the end and was regularly struggling to get out of the 2nd inning before being sent down.

Giolito made two mistakes today. They hurt him badly, but he had 6K in 5.1 and only gave up 6 hits while walking 2.

Giolito is showing signs of progress. People who don't see that must be reading the line off the box score. It's bluntly obvious he's improving. Is he there yet? No obviously not, but he's hardly Fulmer bad and it needs to be said.
Giolito is not hitting his spots. Look at where the catcher is setting up and where the ball ultimately arrives. He doesn't have good command of neither his fastball nor his curveball right now.



Renteria has had a bit of a longer leash with Giolito than he had with Fulmer. There were a few outings where Giolito could have been pulled after two or three innings but wasn't. There also were a few outings where Fulmer could have been left out there to soak up some innings after the horse left the barn, like Giolito has been allowed to do.


Yes, Giolito has been better than Fulmer, but not by much. They both aren't ready for life in the majors yet. I thought they both would be, but I was wrong. In hindsight, their placement in the starting rotation may have been too aggressive, and we may as well use their minor-league options to let them develop command of their pitches.
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  #330  
Old 06-16-2018, 07:06 PM
wxkid23 wxkid23 is offline
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Giolito is not hitting his spots. Look at where the catcher is setting up and where the ball ultimately arrives. He doesn't have good command of neither his fastball nor his curveball right now.



Renteria has had a bit of a longer leash with Giolito than he had with Fulmer. There were a few outings where Giolito could have been pulled after two or three innings but wasn't. There also were a few outings where Fulmer could have been left out there to soak up some innings after the horse left the barn, like Giolito has been allowed to do.


Yes, Giolito has been better than Fulmer, but not by much. They both aren't ready for life in the majors yet. I thought they both would be, but I was wrong. In hindsight, their placement in the starting rotation may have been too aggressive, and we may as well use their minor-league options to let them develop command of their pitches.
Curious why you thought Fulmer would ever be any good? He hasn't really done anything since we drafted him. We was rushed way before his numbers screamed call up
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