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  #31  
Old 04-09-2018, 09:31 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo
Delmonico and Garcia should not be playing the OF, but this is the reality of a rebuilding club.
It shouldn’t be the reality. In fact, I would much rather have the opposite. The pitching prospects have arrived before the position player prospects, so I would rather see the playing time go to the superior defenders who can’t hit instead of seeing guys play out of position just to get their better bats in the lineup. The extra outs being saved for the pitching staff should be a higher priority than the few extra meaningful hits that guys like Leury Garcia may provide. Besides, if some of these Engel/Cordell/Sanchez types prove that their bats are competent enough to warrant roster spots on a contending team, that would be less money required to fill out the bench in the future.

Some of these guys can defend at a high enough level to provide a tangible positive impact. None of these guys can hit at a high enough level to provide that type of impact. Plus, defense is much more reliable.
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  #32  
Old 04-09-2018, 09:34 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
It's only a few games in but Garcia has yet to take a single walk so if he has a slump at hitting the ball, his value plummets to nothing. It's a shock to me the guy can't be better in the OF.

Delmonico has shown absolutely nothing this year. But still, small sample size.

Probably best to wait on both. Around ~40ish games played with some warmer weather should give us a better idea of if either should be part of the future.
Garcia is pretty much a 30-40 walk/season guy- but he has now hit >.330 over his last 550 ABs- I think he's a LF vs. RF.
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Players that are an important part of the rebuild:
Anderson, Fulmer, Giolito, Lopez, Moncada
Players that might be or could have trade value:
Abreu, Bummer, Davidson, Fry, A. Garcia, Jones, Sanchez
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  #33  
Old 04-09-2018, 09:48 AM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
They are not contenders this year. Therefore, losses only improve their draft position.

What matters is more good innings for Lopez.
Honestly, I can't muster up the energy to care about wins or losses this season. I'm looking strictly at individual performances and even through that lens, it's limited to Anderson, Moncada, Abreu, Avi, Lopez, Fulmer, Davidson and Giolito. And then I'm heading over to the MiLB to check on the prospects.

Sure, I want to see inspired baseball but the draft pick in '19 is far more important than managing to eke out a .500 season.

So far, I'd say I've been pleased. Giolito struggled a bit in his last start and Moncada has been ice cold, but I have a hunch both will improve as it warms up. Neither concerns me at the moment.
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  #34  
Old 04-09-2018, 10:37 AM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
Honestly, I can't muster up the energy to care about wins or losses this season. I'm looking strictly at individual performances and even through that lens, it's limited to Anderson, Moncada, Abreu, Avi, Lopez, Fulmer, Davidson and Giolito. And then I'm heading over to the MiLB to check on the prospects.

Sure, I want to see inspired baseball but the draft pick in '19 is far more important than managing to eke out a .500 season.

So far, I'd say I've been pleased. Giolito struggled a bit in his last start and Moncada has been ice cold, but I have a hunch both will improve as it warms up. Neither concerns me at the moment.

Probably the best well said statement of any post game thread so far.

I don't understand all the angst and worry by fans right now. Was I optimistic they'd catch lightning in a bottle and get off to a hot start as currently constructed , well yes. I think this way every season going in.

But the reality is the bulk of this talent is either not here at this level or still raw in development.

The entire OF I predict will have different faces when we are good again. Sorry Lip, Delmonico in my book is not a future piece. Avi despite his solid BA is replaceable player due to his lack of defense and Power. Maybe he's a future DH but it almost feels like we want to stick 7-8 candidates there come 2020.


Things to worry about are if Moncada continues to strikeout at his current crazy rate. If Giollito continues to be wild an doesn't find his curveball. He no longer has a + fastball so that curveball needs to develop into his put-away pitch.
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  #35  
Old 04-09-2018, 10:57 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Probably the best well said statement of any post game thread so far.

I don't understand all the angst and worry by fans right now. Was I optimistic they'd catch lightning in a bottle and get off to a hot start as currently constructed , well yes. I think this way every season going in.

But the reality is the bulk of this talent is either not here at this level or still raw in development.
I'm not here to tell people how to be fans. Seriously, I'm not!

For me, though, it's the above, and it has been for the last few seasons. Sure, there is optimism at the beginning of the season, just like when I was a kid who would have hope regardless of the circumstances that the Sox could do well. And yes, I miss caring about the outcome of every game (even if it saves me a lot of time and emotion to not care so much). But getting worked up about the specifics of this particular 2018 squad outside of future development of likely future pieces (and not guys who are a dime a dozen, like the Engels and Leurys of the world) is just not, to me, a fun way to go about fandom right now.

That said, to each his or her own, and if getting upset about Minaya walking 5 guys, Garcia misplaying a ball, a move Ricky should or should not have made in a particular game this season, etc. is just how you like to enjoy baseball, that's cool, too. Part of me wishes I could have that enthusiasm. But a bigger part of me is happier to reserve it for when it counts, which is hopefully soon.
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  #36  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:09 AM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
It's only a few games in but Garcia has yet to take a single walk so if he has a slump at hitting the ball, his value plummets to nothing.

Batting in the 2nd spot leads to fewer walks. Pitches won't nibble at the plate, afraid to walk batters in front of the 3rd and 4th place hitters. In the 2 hole you'll usually see pitches to hit. The main reason why Jeter loved hitting in the 2 hole.
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  #37  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:14 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I'm not here to tell people how to be fans. Seriously, I'm not!

For me, though, it's the above, and it has been for the last few seasons. Sure, there is optimism at the beginning of the season, just like when I was a kid who would have hope regardless of the circumstances that the Sox could do well. And yes, I miss caring about the outcome of every game (even if it saves me a lot of time and emotion to not care so much). But getting worked up about the specifics of this particular 2018 squad outside of future development of likely future pieces (and not guys who are a dime a dozen, like the Engels and Leurys of the world) is just not, to me, a fun way to go about fandom right now.

That said, to each his or her own, and if getting upset about Minaya walking 5 guys, Garcia misplaying a ball, a move Ricky should or should not have made in a particular game this season, etc. is just how you like to enjoy baseball, that's cool, too. Part of me wishes I could have that enthusiasm. But a bigger part of me is happier to reserve it for when it counts, which is hopefully soon.
I agree with all the points made. To each their own and even a diehard optimist like me can see this season is unlikely to bring me great joy from an individual game or season long perspective, but...

I admit I get confused by people putting so much stock in a few early season games when it comes to predicting long term trends for the team or the players on it at present. 9 games into a 162 game season we have no trends to consider, IMO. There are no trends at present, (again) IMO because it's simply WAY too soon and WAY too small of a sample size. I will add that the freezing weather is another factor to consider, because like it or not, it does play a factor, more so with young players who are still developing their routine and ability to adapt to adverse conditions. Expecting a guy like Moncada (for example) to react the same to these changes as Abreu or Shields or Miguel Cabrera doesn't strike me as as the correct perspective. Doesn't mean people can't do it, but I just don't think it's logical.

Ask me again in June or heck end of April after the team gets to play some games in better conditions. It will be pushing 60 on Wednesday already, so hopefully the turnaround for some of these struggling players starts sooner than that.
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  #38  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:15 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
I was kinda concerned this team hit *too many* home runs those first few games, because now they might fall into the trap of believing they are a power-laden team.

The past couple games have been reminiscent of the Walkerball Era. No home runs, no offense. Horrible approaches with RISP. Can't get the man in from third with less than two outs.

The GIDP swings are finely tuned, though!
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  #39  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:34 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
You need fundamentally sound players playing at the correct position to play that type of baseball. The White Sox OF is not comprised of fundamentally sound players. Delmonico and Garcia should not be playing the OF, but this is the reality of a rebuilding club.
Then bring up Cordell.
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  #40  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:36 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I admit I get confused by people putting so much stock in a few early season games when it comes to predicting long term trends for the team or the players on it at present. 9 games into a 162 game season we have no trends to consider, IMO. There are no trends at present, (again) IMO because it's simply WAY too soon and WAY too small of a sample size.
There are people I am very close with who I consider to be die-hard, insane, very intelligent baseball fans who still fall for small sample size exaggerations every single baseball season, as if they haven't lived through 162-game baseball seasons for 30+ years. It's human nature. And it drives me crazy.
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  #41  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:45 AM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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As an addendum to my post, I'm also keeping an eye on Yolmer. I think he could be a nice asset/depth on a competing team. But that's pretty much the list.

Also, regarding Moncada, this is probably the first time he's had to play in this type of weather. I would imagine that playing in 30 degree weather is especially tough for young Latin American players.
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  #42  
Old 04-09-2018, 01:31 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
Honestly, I can't muster up the energy to care about wins or losses this season. I'm looking strictly at individual performances and even through that lens, it's limited to Anderson, Moncada, Abreu, Avi, Lopez, Fulmer, Davidson and Giolito. And then I'm heading over to the MiLB to check on the prospects.

Sure, I want to see inspired baseball but the draft pick in '19 is far more important than managing to eke out a .500 season.

So far, I'd say I've been pleased. Giolito struggled a bit in his last start and Moncada has been ice cold, but I have a hunch both will improve as it warms up. Neither concerns me at the moment.
That's pretty much how I feel about this team this year. I mean, yeah, we're all frustrated any time the Sox play poorly and lose, but I'm focused on players that are expected to be part of this team in a year or two.
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  #43  
Old 04-09-2018, 01:59 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
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Originally Posted by Paulwny View Post
Batting in the 2nd spot leads to fewer walks. Pitches won't nibble at the plate, afraid to walk batters in front of the 3rd and 4th place hitters. In the 2 hole you'll usually see pitches to hit. The main reason why Jeter loved hitting in the 2 hole.
Yep- only 6 Ks for him so far this year- so looks like he is seeing alot of good pitches.
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  #44  
Old 04-09-2018, 02:08 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is online now
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For me it's getting over the initial optimism. I always think we are better than we really are to start, and I come to the final realization a couple of weeks into the season. Last year was easiest for me, because I never had any expectation. This season, I expected serviceable baseball. Quickly realizing that this bullpen and staff will struggle way too much to make that the case.

I am fine with that. I am enjoying baseball too much as it is by combining minor leagues with the majors. Nothing lost with a bad season, but something gained with a nice first round pick.
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