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  #1  
Old 03-18-2005, 10:52 AM
Goose Goose is offline
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Default What to do with the Juicers?

The purpose of this thread is to start a discussion about what should be done with all the records that fell or will soon fall due to players using illegal performance enhancers. I, for one, was disgusted to see Roger Maris’ record of 61 homeruns be challenged not by 1 player, but 2 in the same year…then to be broken again only 3 years later…something seemed suspicious then and now we all know why.

Roger Maris has an asterisk placed next to his name for hitting 61 HRs (beating Babe Ruth’s record of 60 HRs) because he did so by playing 8 more regular season games than Ruth (154 games to 162).

What should Baseball do with the likes of McGuire, Sosa, and especially Bonds (who will probably break the career HR record this year or next)? How should the HoF treat these players over true deservers of the HoF like Frank Thomas? Are asterisks next to their names enough to single them out from the real behemoths of baseball, or should a more drastic measure be taken?

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2005, 12:41 PM
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Ol' No. 2 Ol' No. 2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose
The purpose of this thread is to start a discussion about what should be done with all the records that fell or will soon fall due to players using illegal performance enhancers. I, for one, was disgusted to see Roger Maris’ record of 61 homeruns be challenged not by 1 player, but 2 in the same year…then to be broken again only 3 years later…something seemed suspicious then and now we all know why.

Roger Maris has an asterisk placed next to his name for hitting 61 HRs (beating Babe Ruth’s record of 60 HRs) because he did so by playing 8 more regular season games than Ruth (154 games to 162).

What should Baseball do with the likes of McGuire, Sosa, and especially Bonds (who will probably break the career HR record this year or next)? How should the HoF treat these players over true deservers of the HoF like Frank Thomas? Are asterisks next to their names enough to single them out from the real behemoths of baseball, or should a more drastic measure be taken?

Thoughts?
Screw the asterisk. Wipe them off the record books. Ben Johnson doesn't have an asterisk.
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2005, 09:43 PM
Infallible Infallible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' No. 2
Screw the asterisk. Wipe them off the record books. Ben Johnson doesn't have an asterisk.
+10000000000 No HOF and no mention that they even played.
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  #4  
Old 03-18-2005, 11:00 PM
DaleJRFan DaleJRFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' No. 2
Screw the asterisk. Wipe them off the record books. Ben Johnson doesn't have an asterisk.
Agreed. In addition to the Wall of Shame at Cooperstown with pictures/details of each player busted.

Someone should start a "Busted Juicer" web site like the Registered Sex Offender web sites...
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  #5  
Old 03-19-2005, 05:33 AM
Fredsox Fredsox is offline
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My personal opinion is that these guys are just as bad for baseball as 1919. I really don't care as much about the records, they can have them, but no HOF induction for any of them. Give 'em the Pete Rose treatment.
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  #6  
Old 03-19-2005, 08:19 AM
wassagstdu wassagstdu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' No. 2
Screw the asterisk. Wipe them off the record books. Ben Johnson doesn't have an asterisk.
I agree. They should get the Pete Rose treatment plus. Rose's records were not assisted by his violation, but the juicers' were. Wipe them and ban them. They get to keep the money, though, and no jail time. So nobody should feel sorry for them.

As for the future, how about an 80-game suspension without pay for the first positive test and lifetime ban for the second? Give one year's warning to let everyone clean house, then end the problem. The current "plan" constitutes that warning, so do it in 2006. I am still not sure what to do about things like human growth hormone that are not detectable. (Think Sammy knows that?) But hopefully the threat of such serious consequences will be deterrent enough even if the player thinks he can evade testing.
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  #7  
Old 03-19-2005, 08:36 AM
I_Liked_Manuel I_Liked_Manuel is offline
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this is a tricky situation, because imo the players aren't the only ones at fault. i feel the players that used steroids should be banned for life, but what do we do about the owners that knew about it and did nothing? should they be forced to sell?
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2005, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by wassagstdu
I agree. They should get the Pete Rose treatment plus. Rose's records were not assisted by his violation, but the juicers' were. Wipe them and ban them. They get to keep the money, though, and no jail time. So nobody should feel sorry for them.

As for the future, how about an 80-game suspension without pay for the first positive test and lifetime ban for the second? Give one year's warning to let everyone clean house, then end the problem. The current "plan" constitutes that warning, so do it in 2006. I am still not sure what to do about things like human growth hormone that are not detectable. (Think Sammy knows that?) But hopefully the threat of such serious consequences will be deterrent enough even if the player thinks he can evade testing.
HGH is detectable, but you need a blood test to do it. That's one of the biggest loopholes in the current plan - there are too many things that are not detected. I say go with an IOC-type program all the way. Unannounced testing year-round for the full array of substances. Also, in international testing they have a "substantially similar" clause covering new stuff that may be just a minor modification of known substances. A one-year suspension for the first offense and lifetime for the second.
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  #9  
Old 03-19-2005, 10:58 AM
flo-B-flo flo-B-flo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wassagstdu
Rose's records were not assisted by his violation
There were HEAVY rumors that Rose was on the juice. If my memory serves me correctly in the late 70's early 80's there were widespread rumors of juicing. One year Lenny Dykstra came back from the off season looking like a linebacker.
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  #10  
Old 03-19-2005, 11:43 AM
Fredsox Fredsox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel
this is a tricky situation, because imo the players aren't the only ones at fault. i feel the players that used steroids should be banned for life, but what do we do about the owners that knew about it and did nothing? should they be forced to sell?
Tough question but a valid one. I'm not certain that you could do that even if you could prove they knew. I think that if you could prove a player was on steroid or any illicit drugs, maybe a heavy fine.

The NCAA bans teams from post-season competition. Certainly people have made the argument that the NCAA is as much a professional league as the NBA, MLB, NFL, or NHL. I'm curious as to how far we as fans are willing to go to clean up the drug and cheating problems in sports. Would we support a ban on post-season appearances and league revenue-sharing?
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  #11  
Old 03-19-2005, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel
this is a tricky situation, because imo the players aren't the only ones at fault. i feel the players that used steroids should be banned for life, but what do we do about the owners that knew about it and did nothing? should they be forced to sell?
Nice idea, but what would you do with 30 baseball teams all for sale at the same time?
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2005, 01:35 PM
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I don't see a practical way of implementing a way to see who was on the juice and who wasn't outside of a few players that have admitted to using.

You can't go back in time and test players so what's the point.

If you want to ban somebody and set an example then start with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2005, 08:53 PM
Fake Chet Lemon Fake Chet Lemon is offline
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Default Reality Check

Let's talk reality. Since confirmed cheaters are already in the Hall (Gaylord Perry) and since we can't know for sure all the players that used steroids, there is very little they can do with records and all. There won't be any *'s, Gaylord Perry doesn't have any. But they will pay when they are up for the Hall vote. They'll have to wait a few years or may not get in at all. I would like to see an exhibit in the Hall though announcing the name of CONFIRMED steriod users.
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2005, 09:05 PM
WhiteSoxFan84 WhiteSoxFan84 is offline
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If all but 4 players deny using steroids, you'll never know who really did and who really didn't.

Do what all the MLB suits did... ignore it and pretend nothing happened.
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2005, 09:07 PM
SOX ADDICT '73 SOX ADDICT '73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flo-B-flo
One year Lenny Dykstra came back from the off season looking like a linebacker.
Lenny Dykstra's sort of "juicing" involved a cheek full of chewing tobacco.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose
What to do with the juicers?

I say we force them to have plastic surgery which shrinks their testicles and gives them giant man-boobies and horrible acne. Oh wait...
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