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  #31  
Old 07-06-2018, 01:01 PM
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JB98 JB98 is online now
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The White Sox walked the leadoff hitter with a one-run lead in the bottom of the eighth inning and got away with it. Undeterred, they walked the leadoff hitter with a one-run lead in the bottom of the ninth and finally paid for their staff-wide refusal to throw the ball over the plate.

The Sox have issued a league-high 371 walks this season. Baltimore ranks a distant second at 308.

The 2017 Sox led the league with 632 walks. Baltimore was a distant second with 579.

It wasn't quite that bad in 2016 when Sale and Quintana were both at the top of the rotation, but the Sox ranked third in the AL in walks with 521.

Too many walks. This isn't a small sample size. It's a long-term trend and a problem in this organization. I call upon our alleged great pitching coach to get this staff in the strike zone more frequently. Giving the opposition baserunners is never a recipe for success, especially when you have a suspect defensive club as well.(Although the Sox did make some good defensive plays last night.)
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  #32  
Old 07-06-2018, 02:12 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Too many walks. This isn't a small sample size. It's a long-term trend and a problem in this organization. I call upon our alleged great pitching coach to get this staff in the strike zone more frequently. Giving the opposition baserunners is never a recipe for success, especially when you have a suspect defensive club as well.(Although the Sox did make some good defensive plays last night.)
Getting a catcher who can pitch frame better would be a good place to start at reducing the walks. For all his many, many faults, Tyler Flowers was a really good pitch framing catcher and the Sox haven't come close to finding a guy that can duplicate that. The problem is lately the Sox have been finding catchers that are well below league average at this. Among catchers with enough qualifying starts, Narvaez is the 9th worst pitch framer in baseball while Castillo was the worst overall. When Dioner Navarro was here, he was among the worst in the league too. I don't think Smith has gotten enough playing time yet to qualify but I feel like he is at least average at pitch framing. When you have pitchers that struggle with their control like Giolito and Rodon, getting a few extra borderline strikes could make a huge difference in their outings. It's no coincidence that Gio's E.R.A. with Smith has been much better than with any other catcher.

Heck, even a league average pitch framer would be better than what we've been getting lately. Too many times I've seen our catchers (specifically Narvaez) actually "de-frame" a pitch and fool the umpire into thinking a pitch that is in the zone is out of the zone. I'm hoping Zavala and Collins are learning a good technique for this in the minors because it's an area the Sox have really struggled recently.
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  #33  
Old 07-06-2018, 02:28 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Camilo, carry-on View Post
I'm too old to waste my time watching a lousy baseball team. There's only 1-1/2 proven quality major league players on the current roster. As bad as the 1970 team was, that team had Aparicio, Tommy John and Bill Melton to name a few.
OK, then.
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  #34  
Old 07-06-2018, 02:55 PM
TommyJohn TommyJohn is offline
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Originally Posted by Camilo, carry-on View Post
I'm too old to waste my time watching a lousy baseball team. There's only 1-1/2 proven quality major league players on the current roster. As bad as the 1970 team was, that team had Aparicio, Tommy John and Bill Melton to name a few.
And they still lost 106 games. And Bill Melton was horrible defensively. He took a foul ball off his nose.

I don't get all the reverential nostalgia for the 1970 team.
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  #35  
Old 07-06-2018, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyJohn View Post
And they still lost 106 games. And Bill Melton was horrible defensively. He took a foul ball off his nose.

I don't get all the reverential nostalgia for the 1970 team.
It was a pop up in Baltimore off the bat of Brooks Robinson if I remember right. Broke the nose.
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  #36  
Old 07-06-2018, 05:17 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
That would be like scheduling a delivery of brand-new furniture before actually signing the closing papers on a house. This team is not going to be in a position to extract optimal utility from quality bullpen arms. Let those kids you listed take the spots.
The team needs to develop a winning culture at some point- I'm not saying break the bank- and the internal options get priority, but with the room we'll have on the payroll- I'd like to see an investment in the bullpen.
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  #37  
Old 07-06-2018, 05:29 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72
The team needs to develop a winning culture at some point- I'm not saying break the bank- and the internal options get priority, but with the room we'll have on the payroll- I'd like to see an investment in the bullpen.
Didnít they kinda do this already by trading for Soria and Avilan before the season started? I expect something similar before next season.
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  #38  
Old 07-06-2018, 10:51 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
The team needs to develop a winning culture at some point- I'm not saying break the bank- and the internal options get priority, but with the room we'll have on the payroll- I'd like to see an investment in the bullpen.
I would as well and have been advocating it. You just can't keep pissing away these games next year. Bad for the players themselves mentally and it sure as hell isn't helping the fans have patience during the rebuild.

But I've been told that thinking is wrong since the Sox won't be contending next season.

I say with plenty of room on the payroll it gives you a chance to make some improvement in the win / loss column which is good for everybody on the field, in the front office and in the stands. And if you get some decent / quality relief guys who help the rebuild since those guys aren't coming here on a one year deal. They figure to be around in two years when the Sox damn well better be improved / start contending for a wild card spot.

But what the hell do I know.
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  #39  
Old 07-06-2018, 10:52 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Didnít they kinda do this already by trading for Soria and Avilan before the season started? I expect something similar before next season.
Soria and Avilan aren't quite my idea of "quality" relief pitchers. But I do see your point.
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  #40  
Old 07-07-2018, 12:02 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1
I would as well and have been advocating it. You just can't keep pissing away these games next year. Bad for the players themselves mentally and it sure as hell isn't helping the fans have patience during the rebuild.

But I've been told that thinking is wrong since the Sox won't be contending next season.

I say with plenty of room on the payroll it gives you a chance to make some improvement in the win / loss column which is good for everybody on the field, in the front office and in the stands. And if you get some decent / quality relief guys who help the rebuild since those guys aren't coming here on a one year deal. They figure to be around in two years when the Sox damn well better be improved / start contending for a wild card spot.

But what the hell do I know.
I wouldn't mind seeing the payroll stay low, as long as the payroll dollars that Hahn saves when the team is bad are held in abeyance for him to use when the team is good. Instead of spending, say, $15 million on three arms for the 2019 bullpen, I would rather let three kids do it for under $2 million and save the $13 million for improvements in 2020 or 2021.
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  #41  
Old 07-07-2018, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing the payroll stay low, as long as the payroll dollars that Hahn saves when the team is bad are held in abeyance for him to use when the team is good. Instead of spending, say, $15 million on three arms for the 2019 bullpen, I would rather let three kids do it for under $2 million and save the $13 million for improvements in 2020 or 2021.
The big assumption is that ANYBODY decent will want to take that money all things being equal (i.e. other suitors) given the Sox by that point could be going on basically 13 years of less than stellar play in 2020 / 2021. That's the risk you potentially take. Plus you have no real idea the caliber and quantity of available free agents then.

As I've said before potential is a great thing but guys want to win now. And given the circumstances surrounding the franchise it could be a VERY difficult sell job.

Showing improvement on the field in the win / loss column in 2019 could make that selling job a little easier to do in 2020, 2021, 2022.
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  #42  
Old 07-07-2018, 01:10 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I had the Sox +285 last night. Ouch.
And I have no idea what that means. Oh, I know it has something to do with gambling, but beyond that, nothing.
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  #43  
Old 07-07-2018, 01:44 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox
And I have no idea what that means. Oh, I know it has something to do with gambling, but beyond that, nothing.
Itís the money line.

A $100 bet would win $285.

Letís say, for the sake of the example, the Astros were -320. That would be the opposite situation: a $320 bet would win $100.
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  #44  
Old 07-07-2018, 01:46 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1
The big assumption is that ANYBODY decent will want to take that money all things being equal (i.e. other suitors) given the Sox by that point could be going on basically 13 years of less than stellar play in 2020 / 2021. That's the risk you potentially take. Plus you have no real idea the caliber and quantity of available free agents then.

As I've said before potential is a great thing but guys want to win now. And given the circumstances surrounding the franchise it could be a VERY difficult sell job.

Showing improvement on the field in the win / loss column in 2019 could make that selling job a little easier to do in 2020, 2021, 2022.
Wouldnít your potential bullpen additions feel the same way about signing here?
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  #45  
Old 07-07-2018, 08:58 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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And I have no idea what that means. Oh, I know it has something to do with gambling, but beyond that, nothing.
As legal sports gambling expands, you'll learn all about it on every sports broadcast!
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