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  #46  
Old 05-11-2018, 10:32 PM
soxnut67 soxnut67 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
voodoo,


It's not the number of loses that matter. This team is not even competitive at this time.
It doesn't matter. The Astros weren't competitive either, they weren't supposed to be and right now neither are we. Take a look at their records from 5;yeras ago. It's part of the process. Hopefully it won't take as long but you never know.
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  #47  
Old 05-11-2018, 10:33 PM
central44 central44 is offline
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Originally Posted by ricker182 View Post
Can't really talk bad about an organzation that just won a world championship.

We're about to lose 110 games.
Er...


2011 Astros: 56 106
2012 Astros: 55 107
2013 Astros: 51 111

It takes some time. The Sox just started this process. And there's no question that it sucks right now, but the Sox have talent like Eloy and Moncada and Kopech and Hansen and Robert already, any one of which would probably be the cornerstone of most team's rebuilds. The Sox have all five of those guys plus a lot of legitimate prospects a tier below.

AND you have to factor in the #4 pick this year, as well as (more than likely), the #1 pick next year.

And then factor in that they have so much pitching depth at a time where pitching costs a fortune. They could have a ton of money to spend on free agents.

This year sucks, no question, but it's by design. The Knights could probably beat the Sox in a 7 game series, but that's a good thing for the long term future of the team.
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  #48  
Old 05-11-2018, 10:37 PM
soxnut67 soxnut67 is offline
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Originally Posted by central44 View Post
Er...


2011 Astros: 56 106
2012 Astros: 55 107
2013 Astros: 51 111

It takes some time. The Sox just started this process. And there's no question that it sucks right now, but the Sox have talent like Eloy and Moncada and Kopech and Hansen and Robert already, any one of which would probably be the cornerstone of most team's rebuilds. The Sox have all five of those guys plus a lot of legitimate prospects a tier below.

AND you have to factor in the #4 pick this year, as well as (more than likely), the #1 pick next year.

And then factor in that they have so much pitching depth at a time where pitching costs a fortune. They could have a ton of money to spend on free agents.

This year sucks, no question, but it's by design. The Knights could probably beat the Sox in a 7 game series, but that's a good thing for the long term future of the team.
Hello, yes. Excellent post.
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  #49  
Old 05-11-2018, 10:40 PM
ricker182 ricker182 is offline
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Originally Posted by central44 View Post
Er...


2011 Astros: 56 106
2012 Astros: 55 107
2013 Astros: 51 111

It takes some time. The Sox just started this process. And there's no question that it sucks right now, but the Sox have talent like Eloy and Moncada and Kopech and Hansen and Robert already, any one of which would probably be the cornerstone of most team's rebuilds. The Sox have all five of those guys plus a lot of legitimate prospects a tier below.

AND you have to factor in the #4 pick this year, as well as (more than likely), the #1 pick next year.

And then factor in that they have so much pitching depth at a time where pitching costs a fortune. They could have a ton of money to spend on free agents.

This year sucks, no question, but it's by design. The Knights could probably beat the Sox in a 7 game series, but that's a good thing for the long term future of the team.
We're likely to blow those picks though.

It's also likely we don't develop those picks too.
I knew it was likely we'd be bad this year, but I'm worried about how bad some of those young guys are playing.

I'm most concerned about Giolito though.
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  #50  
Old 05-11-2018, 10:46 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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The Astros are an extreme example; they had very little to trade and nothing on the farm. The Sox had a ton to trade and nothing on the farm.
The Astros also know how to draft, sign international amateurs, scout and develop. The Sox FO - not so much.
This rebuild is nearing its 2 year mark...it's not at the beginning.
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  #51  
Old 05-11-2018, 10:47 PM
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thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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We're likely to blow those picks though.

It's also likely we don't develop those picks too.
You're right. Everything that can go wrong will. And then when Jerry dies, the new owners will feel they have no choice but to move the team. We're totally ****ed.
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  #52  
Old 05-11-2018, 11:06 PM
soxnut67 soxnut67 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
The Astros are an extreme example; they had very little to trade and nothing on the farm. The Sox had a ton to trade and nothing on the farm.
The Astros also know how to draft, sign international amateurs, scout and develop. The Sox FO - not so much.
This rebuild is nearing its 2 year mark...it's not at the beginning.
Ok, so we might as well just forget the whole thing pack the So bags, sswnd them to Portland and just go home.
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  #53  
Old 05-11-2018, 11:46 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by soxnut67 View Post
Ok, so we might as well just forget the whole thing pack the So bags, sswnd them to Portland and just go home.
Or they could get some people in the FO who know they are doing. Or maybe the people in the FO and the dugout could do a better job. Start with simple veteran scouting: Shields, Gonzalez, Santiago, Soria, Avilan - Rick Hahn might considering sharpening his evaluation skills.
Astros Draft:
Dallas Keuchel
Lance McCullers
Alex Bregman
Jose Altuve
George Springer
Carlos Correa

They also picked up Domingo Santana, Colin Moran, Max Stassi, Brad Peacock, Chris Devenski, Josh Hader and others in their trades of second tier veterans.
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  #54  
Old 05-11-2018, 11:59 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Because Fulmer was thought by some to be a better candidate to be a reliever than a starter. I don't draft a reliever with the eighth pick. But I am sure this organization thought they could fix his delivery and make him a starter. I don't think you give up on him right now, but if there is a fix to Fulmer Cooper better find it and fast.

Ian Happ was playing very well in the Cape Cod league as a middle infielder.

Of course this is hindsight and full disclosure is that I was not aware of who Ian Happ was at that time. But I am now.
Ian Happ isnít good. Heís better than Fulmer, though.
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  #55  
Old 05-12-2018, 12:11 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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2015 was a top-heavy draft. Astros knew what they were doing letting Aiken go in 2014, to grab 2 picks in the much more bountiful 2015 early part of the draft.
But it petered out right around the Sox pick.
Wish 2018 was top heavy like that; and I guess now I can hope 2019 is as well.
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  #56  
Old 05-12-2018, 12:18 AM
soxnut67 soxnut67 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Or they could get some people in the FO who know they are doing. Or maybe the people in the FO and the dugout could do a better job. Start with simple veteran scouting: Shields, Gonzalez, Santiago, Soria, Avilan - Rick Hahn might considering sharpening his evaluation skills.
Astros Draft:
Dallas Keuchel
Lance McCullers
Alex Bregman
Jose Altuve
George Springer
Carlos Correa

They also picked up Domingo Santana, Colin Moran, Max Stassi, Brad Peacock, Chris Devenski, Josh Hader and others in their trades of second tier veterans.
Ok good points on the Astros pick ups. It's still took them some time. The bullpen be have now is horrible but I don't expect them to be around when the Sox are ready to compete anyway. But Hahn and crew must be doing something right if the farm system that was rated one of the worst to now one of the best in 2 years. That's worth something. I believe in the plan, and of course not all will pan out, plus they will have $ to spend on free agents when the time is right.
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  #57  
Old 05-12-2018, 12:23 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
voodoo,


It's not the number of loses that matter. This team is not even competitive at this time.
Right but there's at most 6 players currently on the team who are expected to be on the team when they hopefully will be. 2 of those are iffy - Abreu and Fulmer and 3 others are in their very first full year in the majors. Every other piece on the team is completely expendable from a long term perspective though there are hopes for 1 or 2 of them mostly centered on their trade value increasing.
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  #58  
Old 05-12-2018, 12:28 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
The Astros are an extreme example; they had very little to trade and nothing on the farm. The Sox had a ton to trade and nothing on the farm.
The Astros also know how to draft, sign international amateurs, scout and develop. The Sox FO - not so much.
This rebuild is nearing its 2 year mark...it's not at the beginning.
That's also why the Sox aren't expected to lose 105+ games 3 years in a row. They were able to latch on to several high end prospects very quickly and not have to do it all through the draft.

But... and once again... this was ALWAYS expected to be the bottom year of the rebuild process. The fact we truly are bottoming out in a spectacular and awful way is frustrating to watch from a immediate gratification perspective but it's still what was intended even if the present result is much worse than many of us were hoping for this year.
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  #59  
Old 05-12-2018, 12:49 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Astros Draft:
Dallas Keuchel
Lance McCullers
Alex Bregman
Jose Altuve
George Springer
Carlos Correa

They also picked up Domingo Santana, Colin Moran, Max Stassi, Brad Peacock, Chris Devenski, Josh Hader and others in their trades of second tier veterans.
You're cherry-picking.

Correa (1-1) and Bregman (1-2) were drafted higher than any pick the Sox have had since Harold Baines. That's the whole point of tanking - to be able to pick that high.

Springer (1-11) and McCullers (1-41) were also first rounders. The Sox drafted Chris Sale (1-13) and Alec Hansen (2-49) with lesser picks.

Altuve and Keuchel were great pickups (amateur FA and 7th round, respectively).

So was Jose Quintana (minor league FA).

The Sox' recent trade history has been very good. Better, probably, than Houston's.
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  #60  
Old 05-12-2018, 12:52 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Ian Happ isnít good. Heís better than Fulmer, though.
Even Hector Santiago is better than Fulmer.
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