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  #121  
Old 11-22-2019, 03:30 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by CHISOXFAN13 View Post
The majority of fans on websites and social media don't like this contract, so not sure how him being a fan favorite makes any difference. I love Jose, but not at this cost.

Let's not act like this is a franchise that spends even league average money on a regular basis. There's legitimate reason to be concerned about how this deal may affect business in a couple years.

Outside of the Cardinals signing Molina, and hes a future HOF, I can't remember an overpay like this for a guy just because. It's the Jerry Way.
That's not what I'm seeing on social media. I'm seeing the opposite.
  #122  
Old 11-22-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MISoxfan View Post
I'm seeing the exact opposite in fan reactions on social media than you.
And social media represents a small fraction of "fans".
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  #123  
Old 11-22-2019, 03:47 PM
BRDSR BRDSR is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Abreu- DH/1B
Grandal- C/DH/1B
Vaughn- 1B/DH

I don't see an issue here.
Sure, that will work. But I like this better in 2021 (assuming McCann is gone):

Abreu- DH/1B
Grandal- C/DH/1B
Collins - C/1B/DH
Young, cost-controlled through 2022/3, above average starting pitcher.

We all know that the Sox are going to have a tough time pulling the trigger on a top-tier starting pitcher. Iím starting to wonder whether theyíre trying to lock down each position for a few years through free agency and then will address address starting pitcher through trading some of the top prospects that become less necessary as a result of the free agent signings.
  #124  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:05 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Problem is that data comes from 1985-2018, players in the 80s, 90s, 00s were very successful deep into their careers. That does not seem to be the case anymore. Over the last 5 or so years, we have seen stars, good, and above average players take nose dives at a certain points in their 30s.
I haven't seen any research that says players of the past 5 years have regressed more rapidly than players of any other era. I know that Barry Bonds skews a lot of charts, but removing him doesn't cause a dramatic shift in numbers.. Some older guys (35+) had very productive years with little or no drop-off in 2019 including: Nelson Cruz, Hunter Pence, Yadier Molina, Edwin Encarnacion, Shin-Soo Choo, Kurt Suzuki, Howie Kendrick, Nick Markakis, Yuli Gurriel, Brett Gardner and Robinson Chrinos. There were some 33 and 34 year olds that hit the ball well too. Stephen Vogt, Justin Turner, Carlos Santana, Mitch Moreland, Todd Frazier and Josh Donaldson to name a few.

I think we all can confidently agree that Jose will not be the same hitter in 2022 as he will be in 2019, but he's not going to just fall off a cliff next year without some sort of injury causing the fall.
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  #125  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:26 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
It is actually $14 million in year 3, but why let facts get in the way of the narrative?
Heís earning $18 overall for that season. Deferring $4 of it doesnít make it more palatable for an age-35 1B who is already awful in the field and on the basepaths as it is.
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  #126  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:34 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Spending just to spend doesn't make sense either. As I pointed out, money will be WAY tighter in 2022. I still want them to spend on SP and RF this offseason, and I think they will. Love Abreu, but he is far likelier to "drop off and be expendable than Eloy, Anderson, Moncada, and Giolito.

Again with Abreu, they could have had their cake and eat it too with him on a year to year basis. He loves this team and has no interest in leaving.

Also if some of the core guys drop off, there are big problems, and problems that money might be able to solve. Flexibility with payroll would be huge then. Them being "expendable" isn't a good thing, and that wouldn't mean great returns on a trade that improve the club.
They also could have moved him at the trade deadline. The entire benefit of keeping him was to slap the QO on him and not have to worry about going long-term with him this offseason. That advantage was not even utilized.

They could have given him this looney contract anyway in free agency, and he would have raced to the bank to cash the check before Hahn changed his mind. No other GM was going to consider offering a 3rd year.
  #127  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:38 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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This is an overpayment and unnecessary and possibly counterproductive.
  #128  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:56 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
I haven't seen any research that says players of the past 5 years have regressed more rapidly than players of any other era. I know that Barry Bonds skews a lot of charts, but removing him doesn't cause a dramatic shift in numbers.. Some older guys (35+) had very productive years with little or no drop-off in 2019 including: Nelson Cruz, Hunter Pence, Yadier Molina, Edwin Encarnacion, Shin-Soo Choo, Kurt Suzuki, Howie Kendrick, Nick Markakis, Yuli Gurriel, Brett Gardner and Robinson Chrinos. There were some 33 and 34 year olds that hit the ball well too. Stephen Vogt, Justin Turner, Carlos Santana, Mitch Moreland, Todd Frazier and Josh Donaldson to name a few.

I think we all can confidently agree that Jose will not be the same hitter in 2022 as he will be in 2019, but he's not going to just fall off a cliff next year without some sort of injury causing the fall.
There used to be tons of top 5 MVP candidates every year that were in their 30s back then, and really not many nowadays. It wasn't just Bonds skewing the data. Nelson Cruz and Donaldson are the only ones that were stars last year. Theres a reason why FAs in their 30s have seen a huge pullback in their market over the last few offseasons, it's because those longer contracts to them have bitten teams of late. I don't have any articles or studies, but just following the league closely has made that pretty clear in my eyes.

I know I'm not the only person who follows a team that is wary of players in their mid 30s not being productive.
  #129  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:58 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
They also could have moved him at the trade deadline. The entire benefit of keeping him was to slap the QO on him and not have to worry about going long-term with him this offseason. That advantage was not even utilized.

They could have given him this looney contract anyway in free agency, and he would have raced to the bank to cash the check before Hahn changed his mind. No other GM was going to consider offering a 3rd year.
Yeah the offering the QO doesn't even make sense now considering how much he got.
  #130  
Old 11-22-2019, 05:30 PM
hoosiersoxfan hoosiersoxfan is online now
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This seems like a deal that Reinsdorf told Hahn to get done. If it was up to Hahn I'm not so sure he would have offered Abreu the 3 year deal. If Jose keeps his production up the next few years the deal is fine but probably still a slight overpay. Hopefully this doesn't prevent a future deal getting done for an impact player. Maybe it will help entice other FAs knowing there is a good hitter slated to be in the middle of the lineup the next few seasons? Seems like Jose is very well respected both in the Sox locker room and around the league.
  #131  
Old 11-22-2019, 05:33 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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The more I think about this deal the less I like it. I was so happy yesterday when they signed Grandal, I was so proud of being a Sox fan yesterday, I cruised all the baseball websites to read people praising the signing.

Today? Today I am ashamed to be a Sox fan and I am avoiding the baseball websites because I know they are blasting this signing.
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  #132  
Old 11-22-2019, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
The more I think about this deal the less I like it. I was so happy yesterday when they signed Grandal, I was so proud of being a Sox fan yesterday, I cruised all the baseball websites to read people praising the signing.

Today? Today I am ashamed to be a Sox fan and I am avoiding the baseball websites because I know they are blasting this signing.
  #133  
Old 11-22-2019, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
The more I think about this deal the less I like it. I was so happy yesterday when they signed Grandal, I was so proud of being a Sox fan yesterday, I cruised all the baseball websites to read people praising the signing.

Today? Today I am ashamed to be a Sox fan and I am avoiding the baseball websites because I know they are blasting this signing.
Wow. You'd think we just signed Barry Bonds out of retirement for five years.
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  #134  
Old 11-22-2019, 06:26 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
This is an overpayment and unnecessary and possibly counterproductive.
Yep.

I hope it works out but we may regret it.
  #135  
Old 11-22-2019, 06:47 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
They also could have moved him at the trade deadline. The entire benefit of keeping him was to slap the QO on him and not have to worry about going long-term with him this offseason. That advantage was not even utilized.

They could have given him this looney contract anyway in free agency, and he would have raced to the bank to cash the check before Hahn changed his mind. No other GM was going to consider offering a 3rd year.
Any evidence of a market for him at the trade deadline? Value he would have brought in return?
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