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  #1  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:53 AM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Default Whiffing on Machado was a blessing

Had the Sox spent the $300mm+, it would have meant that either Anderson or Moncada would have been pushed to the OF. I'm not sure either would be enjoying a breakout season if that were the case. You also add a player that for all of his talent, is kind of a jackass. I'm not sure that would have been the best in terms of clubhouse chemistry which seems to be amazing right now.

Now, they know that pitching is their achilles and the money that they'd earmarked for Machado can be used to fill some of those holes. Cole is obviously the biggest target but it's pretty easy to improve upon Nova, Despaigne, Banuelos, Santana, Covey, etc. even if they miss on him. Just adding Kopech and Cease to the rotation will be an immediate improvement even if they go through some growing pains.

They'll also likely be adding Robert and Madrigal at some point which will improve both their defense and offense.

We're on the cusp of seeing this rebuild come to fruition and it's going to be glorious.
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:57 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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I was thinking the same thing.


I think the position player half of our roster is shaping up to be quite good over the next 1.5 seasons, and there are multiple options to fill some positions (2B, 1B, CF, RF) in the short term while we wait for the longer-term fixtures (Madrigal, Vaughn, Robert, Basabe/Adoldo/Rutherford/Walker/Gonzalez).


With that, then, Hahn can focus on acquiring whatever starting pitching is necessary to take the next steps.
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:59 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
Had the Sox spent the $300mm+, it would have meant that either Anderson or Moncada would have been pushed to the OF. I'm not sure either would be enjoying a breakout season if that were the case. You also add a player that for all of his talent, is kind of a jackass. I'm not sure that would have been the best in terms of clubhouse chemistry which seems to be amazing right now.

Now, they know that pitching is their achilles and the money that they'd earmarked for Machado can be used to fill some of those holes. Cole is obviously the biggest target but it's pretty easy to improve upon Nova, Despaigne, Banuelos, Santana, Covey, etc. even if they miss on him. Just adding Kopech and Cease to the rotation will be an immediate improvement even if they go through some growing pains.

They'll also likely be adding Robert and Madrigal at some point which will improve both their defense and offense.

We're on the cusp of seeing this rebuild come to fruition and it's going to be glorious.
100% agreement
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  #4  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:09 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
Had the Sox spent the $300mm+, it would have meant that either Anderson or Moncada would have been pushed to the OF. I'm not sure either would be enjoying a breakout season if that were the case. You also add a player that for all of his talent, is kind of a jackass. I'm not sure that would have been the best in terms of clubhouse chemistry which seems to be amazing right now.

Now, they know that pitching is their achilles and the money that they'd earmarked for Machado can be used to fill some of those holes. Cole is obviously the biggest target but it's pretty easy to improve upon Nova, Despaigne, Banuelos, Santana, Covey, etc. even if they miss on him. Just adding Kopech and Cease to the rotation will be an immediate improvement even if they go through some growing pains.

They'll also likely be adding Robert and Madrigal at some point which will improve both their defense and offense.

We're on the cusp of seeing this rebuild come to fruition and it's going to be glorious.
If we acquired Machado then Moncada would likely have stayed at 2B. But I totally agree that it was a blessing, that money can be better used to fill other needs (like SP).
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  #5  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:11 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Couldn't disagree more. Machado was a once-in-a-generation talent and there will be nothing like him available on the FA market when the Sox are in their window of contention. Nor are Moncada or Anderson likely to match his production.

I am simply skeptical of the idea that Moncada and Anderson are having breakout seasons at the plate solely because of the defensive position they play. More likely, had the Sox offered a mere $50 million more for Machado, Yolmer would be gone and the Sox would have Moncada, Anderson, and Machado in the heart of their lineup. They could easily be 3-4 games over .500 at this point.
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  #6  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:18 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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No one would have moved to the outfield. Machado would have played 3B, Anderson and Moncada would have stayed at SS and 2B respectively, Yolmer would have moved to the bench, and Rondon would have been gone.

Yolmerís 0.4 WAR would be replaced by Machadoís 1.9 WAR, and Rondonís -0.2 WAR would have been replaced by Yolmerís 0.4 WAR. Machado would have been a 200-point OPS upgrade to the everyday lineup and provided some much-needed thump to the middle of this order.

There is absolutely no way we are a better baseball team without Manny Machado than we would have been with him.
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  #7  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:28 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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I donít know which free agent starters people are hoping to see the White Sox add, but this list is pretty disappointing.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/...ee-agents.html
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  #8  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:32 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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I strongly disagree for a few reasons:
  • Machado would fill a hole because it moves Moncada over to second, which means first base is the only long term hole you have to fill on the infield.
  • Machado means that Yolmer Sanchez is the backup infielder instead of Jose Rondon
  • Machado's bat changes the whole line-up, which means that if someone like Eloy turns out to be merely good instead of great, it's okay. It's a lot less pressure on Eloy, Moncada, Anderson and even Abreu.
  • Since Machado's signing, the free agent market has consolidated. The biggest free agents next year are Gerrit Cole, Anthony Rendon and J.D. Martinez, all of whom are at least three years older and more likely to enter the decline phase of their career in their next contract a lot sooner than Machado.
  • Signing Machado would demonstrate unequivocally that the Sox are willing to go out and pay for top-tier free agent talent to supplement the talent they're trying to develop. (A caveat: I'm aware that had the Sox signed Machado they probably would have stopped there and would not be going out to sign Cole this off season).

Now, I don't think that missing on Machado is quite the disaster that I thought it was at the time because Anderson and Moncada have taken big steps forward thus far but of course, this means the Sox can't really afford any sort of regression from either of those two.

I also still have my doubts about ownership's willingness to go out and do everything that is necessary to win largely because of their miss on Machado, which causes me to doubt how successful this rebuild will actually be when all is said and done. I also have my doubts about ownership's willingness to take any of the $270M they were willing to guarantee Machado and spend it on a guy like Cole.
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:33 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Just moved this preemptively. I don't trust it to stay on topic past the first page.
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  #10  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:32 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
I donít know which free agent starters people are hoping to see the White Sox add, but this list is pretty disappointing.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/...ee-agents.html
Gerrit Cole (29)

That would be pretty sweet....
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  #11  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:45 PM
blurry blurry is offline
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I also disagree that missing out on Machado was a blessing for this team for the same reasons everyone stated- he'd make the team far better than what we have now. Sure that would mean Moncada at 2nd which also means Madrigal doesn't have a spot. So what? Trade him. He likely isn't going to be better than Moncada or Anderson on the infield anyway and he doesn't have the power to be an outfielder.

And given how thin the FA market will be for good starting pitching, Cole is about to get paid and I highly doubt this ownership gets him. Cole will probably be overpaid but that's what happens when he's really the only great free agent starter.
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:15 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
I also disagree that missing out on Machado was a blessing for this team for the same reasons everyone stated- he'd make the team far better than what we have now.
Yeah, it's pretty unreasonable to think that the White Sox would be better off in the short term without his glove and bat. Long term? Who knows....
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:34 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Gerrit Cole (29)

That would be pretty sweet....
Cole will set the market. The White Sox do not sign players who set the market. They sign whoever is left in the next tier down when the dust settles.

With regards to signing Cole, I see the White Sox doing what they always do:

1) Claiming to be ďin the mixĒ to keep the teamís name in the news during the winter

2) Offering 70 or 80 cents on the dollar

3) Losing Cole to another team who doesnít treat the MLB free agency process like putting in a lowball bid on a house

4) Trying to suggest that signing the less-talented pitcher we sign instead of Cole is somehow a better overall choice for the team.

If I had to guess, the guy I see the White Sox signing is Zach Wheeler. Fewer years and less money coming off a down year, plus the allure of possible above-market-value production that this team finds oh-so-irresistible, despite being burned by it time and time again.
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  #14  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:38 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Machado certainly would have had a place on this team at 3b without effecting Moncada and or Anderson as previously stated by a few already, but I don't think it's as detrimental of a miss as we all thought back in Feb. This offense should be potent enough without him with Eloy, Vaughn, Robert, Moncada, Anderson, etc.

Without having $30 mil tied up annually, getting SP help will be quite a bit easier. Gerrit Cole will be pricy and sought after, I think the Sox only are interested in 5-6 years max for him. Not sure we will be that much in on him. Others that I think are real possibilities are Odorrizzi, Hamels, Bumgarner, and Greinke (via trade).
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  #15  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:52 PM
Rocky Soprano Rocky Soprano is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I strongly disagree for a few reasons:
  • Machado would fill a hole because it moves Moncada over to second, which means first base is the only long term hole you have to fill on the infield.
  • Machado means that Yolmer Sanchez is the backup infielder instead of Jose Rondon
  • Machado's bat changes the whole line-up, which means that if someone like Eloy turns out to be merely good instead of great, it's okay. It's a lot less pressure on Eloy, Moncada, Anderson and even Abreu.
  • Since Machado's signing, the free agent market has consolidated. The biggest free agents next year are Gerrit Cole, Anthony Rendon and J.D. Martinez, all of whom are at least three years older and more likely to enter the decline phase of their career in their next contract a lot sooner than Machado.
  • Signing Machado would demonstrate unequivocally that the Sox are willing to go out and pay for top-tier free agent talent to supplement the talent they're trying to develop. (A caveat: I'm aware that had the Sox signed Machado they probably would have stopped there and would not be going out to sign Cole this off season).

Now, I don't think that missing on Machado is quite the disaster that I thought it was at the time because Anderson and Moncada have taken big steps forward thus far but of course, this means the Sox can't really afford any sort of regression from either of those two.

I also still have my doubts about ownership's willingness to go out and do everything that is necessary to win largely because of their miss on Machado, which causes me to doubt how successful this rebuild will actually be when all is said and done. I also have my doubts about ownership's willingness to take any of the $270M they were willing to guarantee Machado and spend it on a guy like Cole.
This. 100% This.
Machado on this team only makes all of the positives we are seeing that much better.

Itís frustrating as hell when Sox fans think it was a good thing we missed out. This team still has holes. The Sox need to be able to bring in FA if they want to win it all.
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