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  #46  
Old 09-06-2017, 12:27 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by lpneck View Post
Respectfully.

Rick Hahn has been the general manager of the White Sox for 5 years. They are 97 games under .500 during his tenure as general manager.

In the 17 years that Rick has worked for the White Sox, they have made the postseason 2 times.

I apologize that I don't have a ton of confidence.
Very true...however Hahn has to answer to his bosses just like everyone else and as JR himself recently admitted he had to be convinced to rebuild.

I take from that, that since Hahn has admitted publicly he wanted to rebuild a few years ago, JR and others (probably Kenny) were stopping him.

Hard to accurately judge his tenure under those conditions.
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  #47  
Old 09-06-2017, 12:31 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Might try to lock up Avisail right now for 3 years $30-45M with an option year for $15M with a fat buyout. He might jump at the chance for lifetime security like that and it won't seriously hamper the payroll when the Sox are back in the hunt.
Also makes him tradeable for a decent return if all the outfield prospects develop as expected.
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  #48  
Old 09-06-2017, 12:36 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Very true...however Hahn has to answer to his bosses just like everyone else and as JR himself recently admitted he had to be convinced to rebuild.

I take from that, that since Hahn has admitted publicly he wanted to rebuild a few years ago, JR and others (probably Kenny) were stopping him.

Hard to accurately judge his tenure under those conditions.
I was thinking about this the other day. The fact is that even if Hahn was calling all the shots he was working with Kenny's team trying to make Kenny's team work under circumstances set up by Kenny.

I would imagine that every GM wants to make their own team and this is Hahn's chance to do exactly that, remake the team in his own image. All we have to do is look at the Shields trade to know that Hahn is not perfect. We all know Kenny wasn't perfect but he did bring the team a World Series for the first time in forever. I'm judging Hahn on the rebuild and the rebuild on its own merits.

And I say... so far, so good. So very good frankly. We'll learn over the course of the next 2-3 years just how good.
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  #49  
Old 09-06-2017, 03:13 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile
Might try to lock up Avisail right now for 3 years $30-45M with an option year for $15M with a fat buyout. He might jump at the chance for lifetime security like that and it won't seriously hamper the payroll when the Sox are back in the hunt.
That is the other part of the equation.

Abreu likely would get only one more big payday as a 33-year-old. At age 29, Avi would still be able to cash in one more time if he produced for the entire duration of the contract that you have proposed. Plus, at the same period of time in the arbitration process, Abreu's AAV is already getting closer to the $20 million mark, while Avi won't be anywhere near that number.
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  #50  
Old 09-06-2017, 04:12 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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With two more years like this one, Abreu likely commands a nine-figure contract in free agency. I'm extremely wary of committing that to a 1B/DH, especially one who provides negative defensive value.

It's not a matter of wanting Abreu gone. It's a matter of making a tough decision that is ultimately in the best interests of the team's future. Giving both Avi and Abreu two more years of production close to their 2017 production likely puts both players in the $100-million club. If I'm shelling out that kind of money, I'm giving it to the younger player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
That is the other part of the equation.

Abreu likely would get only one more big payday as a 33-year-old. At age 29, Avi would still be able to cash in one more time if he produced for the entire duration of the contract that you have proposed. Plus, at the same period of time in the arbitration process, Abreu's AAV is already getting closer to the $20 million mark, while Avi won't be anywhere near that number.
So, you know for a fact that Abreu is committed to hitting free agency after 2019? I see no reason why the Sox couldn't extend him prior to that date. If we're not paying him, then we're likely overpaying for some veteran free agent to replace his bat. It's highly unlikely that all the prospects we are all penciling in for 2020 are going to pan out. Everyone has Jake Burger as our starting 3B of the future, but he's far from guaranteed to ever pan out.

Sometimes, making the tough decisions includes being willing to pay up to keep your existing star players. Otherwise, we would have said goodbye to Konerko after 2010 based on his age and FA status. Now, if Abreu is actually holding out for FA so that he can seek a 5 or 6 year budget-busting deal at that time, then yeah the decision has to be to let him go. I'm not ready to assume that at this time.

Avi is younger, but Abreu has a better track record of success.
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  #51  
Old 09-06-2017, 04:14 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Might try to lock up Avisail right now for 3 years $30-45M with an option year for $15M with a fat buyout. He might jump at the chance for lifetime security like that and it won't seriously hamper the payroll when the Sox are back in the hunt.
That would be a good plan....and very Hahn-esque. He's the one who locked up Eaton, Sale, and Quintana to extensions. It all didn't work out like we hoped, but those contracts certainly turned out to be very valuable to the Sox current rebuilding effort.
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  #52  
Old 09-07-2017, 07:11 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by GoSox2K3
So, you know for a fact that Abreu is committed to hitting free agency after 2019? I see no reason why the Sox couldn't extend him prior to that date.
Until an extension happens, you have to operate under the assumption that Abreu will only be in the picture for the two service years remaining before he is eligible for free agency. You can't get caught in a situation where a move you thought you would make cripples you in the future when it doesn't get made.

Abreu already has gambled on himself before by opting out of his guaranteed money to enter the year-to-year arbitration process. At this point, with his uptick in numbers this year and solid track record of success, I think he will do so again and hit free agency after 2019.

Of course, the front office very well may consider Abreu to be worth a nine-figure extension and render this whole point moot.
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  #53  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:44 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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RH had some comments about Jose' apparently at a season ticket holder get together yesterday. I saw a report from someone who was present for it that (in their opinion) it sounded like he will be listening to offers for Jose' and Avi this off season...listening intently. Thinks their contract and age in Abreu 's case don't match up well with their window.
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