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  #31  
Old 09-02-2017, 10:02 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Matt Davidson will not be the starting 3B when this team again is competitive.

Anderson is having a sophomore slump, but even amid that he had a solid May and a solid August, and a lousy April, June, and July. He may yet be the starting SS when the Sox again are competitive, but it will probably be as the #9 hitter, which is fine.
Anderson is also grieving the totally shocking loss of his best friend this season. I read he had started getting grief counseling in August and that was obviously his best month of the season. I won't pass judgment on him until he's back to a more normal emotional state.
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  #32  
Old 09-02-2017, 10:48 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Matt Davidson will not be the starting 3B when this team again is competitive.

Anderson is having a sophomore slump, but even amid that he had a solid May and a solid August, and a lousy April, June, and July. He may yet be the starting SS when the Sox again are competitive, but it will probably be as the #9 hitter, which is fine.
We'll see what happens - I think he'll okay. That said, they rushed him, which I think will lower his ceiling; hard to learn to lay off pitches in the majors.

Davidson might be a starter; so might Leury or Sanchez or Omar. Probably not all of them. But each of them, the way they are producing now, are decidedly better than their 2016 counterparts, who, despite their suckitude, managed to win 78.
The team will not have top prospects or all stars across the diamond. A Davidson here or there is fine.
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  #33  
Old 09-02-2017, 12:03 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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We'll see what happens - I think he'll okay. That said, they rushed him, which I think will lower his ceiling; hard to learn to lay off pitches in the majors.

Davidson might be a starter; so might Leury or Sanchez or Omar. Probably not all of them. But each of them, the way they are producing now, are decidedly better than their 2016 counterparts, who, despite their suckitude, managed to win 78.
The team will not have top prospects or all stars across the diamond. A Davidson here or there is fine.
On a contending team, any one of the three catchers currently on the roster is fine as the backup. None of them bring a bat like Fisk or AJ or Charles Johnson; none of them bring the glove and arm of Karkovice.

I think a contending team can afford to carry, at most, two players of the Leury/Sanchez/Davidson mold, but that means the other seven starters need to rake like the 2000/2003/2004/2006 Sox did.

Leury is useful as a super sub because he can play multiple positions (his outfield defense is suspect, though) and hit a little bit, but I don't think he's a long-term starter at a position where you wouldn't want to upgrade, and during 2018 while we are still in development mode I'd rather have gloves like Engel or May in CF to help the young pitchers. Later, Eloy, Robert, Adolfo, Rutherford, and perhaps even Call, Fisher, Gonzalez, or Dedelow all will need to be tried in the OF. Keep in mind that Garcia and perhaps Delmonico will be in the picture, too.

Sanchez is fun, but he's cooled after a hot start and his best position is where we are counting on Moncada to become a cornerstone. He's useful off the bench, too, but when this team is competitive again, if he is starting it means something has gone horribly wrong and the Sox are competing in spite of his limitations.

Davidson also is fun, but he's a three-outcome player who only plays average at best defense at third. If he's starting when the Sox are competitive again, then the team is winning in spite of his limitations.

My point is that we know exactly what these players are, and they aren't cornerstones. They might be useful in certain contexts, but they aren't irreplaceable.
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  #34  
Old 09-02-2017, 12:15 PM
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Yes, in a perfect world, the only guys on the 2017 team who would be starting on a competitive team would be Moncada and Anderson.

The ideal outfield would be Jimenez/Robert/Rutherford, the ideal infield would be Burger/Anderson/Moncada/to be determined (Beer?) and Collins would do the catching.
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  #35  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:15 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Yes, in a perfect world, the only guys on the 2017 team who would be starting on a competitive team would be Moncada and Anderson.

The ideal outfield would be Jimenez/Robert/Rutherford, the ideal infield would be Burger/Anderson/Moncada/to be determined (Beer?) and Collins would do the catching.
What about Abreu?
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  #36  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77
What about Abreu?
Abreu will be entering free agency in two years at age 33. Avi Garcia will be entering free agency in two years at age 29. I don't foresee both guys staying long-term, and if both guys keep up this production, I would rather see the younger player retained.
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  #37  
Old 09-03-2017, 04:01 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Davidson also is fun, but he's a three-outcome player who only plays average at best defense at third. If he's starting when the Sox are competitive again, then the team is winning in spite of his limitations.
This year, he's a two-outcome player. His walks are few and far between. And, since he's 26, he's nothing more than a two-year stopgap -- the Sox will sign or trade for someone if there isn't a better option in the organization.
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  #38  
Old 09-03-2017, 04:45 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
By the way, Tim Anderson is a negative WAR player. He brings OK power, OK speed, and sorta OK defense. He is an absolute liability in the rest of the game.
Anderson is having a sophomore slump, but even amid that he had a solid May and a solid August, and a lousy April, June, and July. He may yet be the starting SS when the Sox again are competitive, but it will probably be as the #9 hitter, which is fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Anderson is also grieving the totally shocking loss of his best friend this season. I read he had started getting grief counseling in August and that was obviously his best month of the season. I won't pass judgment on him until he's back to a more normal emotional state.
Agreed on Anderson. I don't expect him to be an all-star SS, but I don't think it's very useful to cite his season-wide WAR for this year. Let's see how he does next season.
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  #39  
Old 09-03-2017, 06:39 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Agreed on Anderson. I don't expect him to be an all-star SS, but I don't think it's very useful to cite his season-wide WAR for this year. Let's see how he does next season.
I'm on board with that.
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  #40  
Old 09-03-2017, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Agreed on Anderson. I don't expect him to be an all-star SS, but I don't think it's very useful to cite his season-wide WAR for this year. Let's see how he does next season.
And including today's game he's definitely on a roll since the beginning of August.

.772 OPS in August
1.167 OPS in September (12 AB)

If he can put up a .750 and field SS well he's fine anything. If he gets it up to .800 he's an All Star.
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  #41  
Old 09-06-2017, 09:23 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Abreu will be entering free agency in two years at age 33. Avi Garcia will be entering free agency in two years at age 29. I don't foresee both guys staying long-term, and if both guys keep up this production, I would rather see the younger player retained.
If the Sox become playoff contenders again in a couple of years, they're not going to do it with a lineup full of current Sox prospects. I wouldn't be so quick to chuck Abreu aside in 2 years.
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  #42  
Old 09-06-2017, 09:58 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by GoSox2K3
If the Sox become playoff contenders again in a couple of years, they're not going to do it with a lineup full of current Sox prospects. I wouldn't be so quick to chuck Abreu aside in 2 years.
With two more years like this one, Abreu likely commands a nine-figure contract in free agency. I'm extremely wary of committing that to a 1B/DH, especially one who provides negative defensive value.

It's not a matter of wanting Abreu gone. It's a matter of making a tough decision that is ultimately in the best interests of the team's future. Giving both Avi and Abreu two more years of production close to their 2017 production likely puts both players in the $100-million club. If I'm shelling out that kind of money, I'm giving it to the younger player.
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  #43  
Old 09-06-2017, 10:15 AM
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Back to Miguel Gonzalez, he makes his first start for the Rangers this afternoon against Atlanta.
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  #44  
Old 09-06-2017, 11:22 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
With two more years like this one, Abreu likely commands a nine-figure contract in free agency. I'm extremely wary of committing that to a 1B/DH, especially one who provides negative defensive value.

It's not a matter of wanting Abreu gone. It's a matter of making a tough decision that is ultimately in the best interests of the team's future. Giving both Avi and Abreu two more years of production close to their 2017 production likely puts both players in the $100-million club. If I'm shelling out that kind of money, I'm giving it to the younger player.
Might try to lock up Avisail right now for 3 years $30-45M with an option year for $15M with a fat buyout. He might jump at the chance for lifetime security like that and it won't seriously hamper the payroll when the Sox are back in the hunt.
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  #45  
Old 09-06-2017, 11:38 AM
lpneck lpneck is offline
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It's just crazy how anyone and everyone of value who could be moved was. If even a third of these young acquisitions blossom into something, Hahn needs to become the prototype of the modern GM. What a guy.
Respectfully.

Rick Hahn has been the general manager of the White Sox for 5 years. They are 97 games under .500 during his tenure as general manager.

In the 17 years that Rick has worked for the White Sox, they have made the postseason 2 times.

I apologize that I don't have a ton of confidence.
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