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  #16  
Old 11-06-2018, 03:31 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
These committees are notoriously tough to impress. The Golden Era committee failed to enshrine Dick Allen, and he beats out Harold by about 20 WAR and about 90 points of OPS. They also failed to enshrine Minnie Minoso, who is about 12 WAR and about 30 points of OPS above Harold.

In fact, that Golden Era committee enshrined no one when it met in December of 2014. Dick Allen, Tony Oliva, Minnie Minoso, Gil Hodges, Billy Pierce, Jim Kaat, Maury Wills, Ken Boyer, Luis Tiant, and Bob Howsam (nominated as an executive) all fell short on that ballot.
I wonder how many members of this committee, mostly old timers, know what WAR stands for.
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2018, 06:49 PM
Heffalump Heffalump is offline
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I also like to compare Harold Baines' stats to Billy Williams body of work, and thought Harold was often overlooked for his HOF worthy (IMHO) credentials.

Billy Williams G- 2488 Hits- 2711 HR 426 RBI-1475 AVG. 290

Harold Baines G- 2830 Hits- 2866 HR 384 RBI- 1628 AVG .289

That is pretty interesting. I never saw that comp before. I have my fingers crossed for Harold, but as someone else mentioned, these committees tend to be very stingy....HAR-OLD! HAR-OLD!

Last edited by voodoochile; 11-06-2018 at 07:26 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2018, 07:12 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by Wsoxmike59 View Post
Long before Ron Santo was enshrined in the HOF I used to argue his stats and put them up against Brooks Robinson's and they were very comparable. I was happy that Santo long overlooked for the HOF was put in, however one year too late as far as I was concerned. Wish he would've made it while he was alive.



I also like to compare Harold Baines' stats to Billy Williams body of work, and thought Harold was often overlooked for his HOF worthy (IMHO) credentials.



Billy Williams G- 2488 Hits- 2711 HR 426 RBI-1475 AVG. 290

Harold Baines G- 2830 Hits- 2866 HR 384 RBI- 1628 AVG .289
Wow, I would have never guessed that their stats are so similar, thanks for posting.
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  #19  
Old 11-06-2018, 11:06 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by Wsoxmike59 View Post
Long before Ron Santo was enshrined in the HOF I used to argue his stats and put them up against Brooks Robinson's and they were very comparable. I was happy that Santo long overlooked for the HOF was put in, however one year too late as far as I was concerned. Wish he would've made it while he was alive.



I also like to compare Harold Baines' stats to Billy Williams body of work, and thought Harold was often overlooked for his HOF worthy (IMHO) credentials.



Billy Williams G- 2488 Hits- 2711 HR 426 RBI-1475 AVG. 290

Harold Baines G- 2830 Hits- 2866 HR 384 RBI- 1628 AVG .289
In both cases, you're only looking at offensive stats. Brooks made his rep on the other side of the ball.
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  #20  
Old 11-07-2018, 01:33 AM
Wsoxmike59 Wsoxmike59 is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
In both cases, you're only looking at offensive stats. Brooks made his rep on the other side of the ball.

True, but Santo hit a little better than Brooks, and Brooks obviously was the better 3B'man. I think what pushed Brooks in to the HOF sooner than Santo was his World Series appearances. But I still think both are truly worthy to be in Cooperstown.
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  #21  
Old 11-07-2018, 02:02 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Part of the argument against Santo was that there were already so many HOFers from a Cubs team that never won anything. If they had so many great, great players, why didn't they win?
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  #22  
Old 11-10-2018, 01:57 PM
ricker182 ricker182 is offline
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Originally Posted by Wsoxmike59 View Post
Long before Ron Santo was enshrined in the HOF I used to argue his stats and put them up against Brooks Robinson's and they were very comparable. I was happy that Santo long overlooked for the HOF was put in, however one year too late as far as I was concerned. Wish he would've made it while he was alive.



I also like to compare Harold Baines' stats to Billy Williams body of work, and thought Harold was often overlooked for his HOF worthy (IMHO) credentials.



Billy Williams G- 2488 Hits- 2711 HR 426 RBI-1475 AVG. 290

Harold Baines G- 2830 Hits- 2866 HR 384 RBI- 1628 AVG .289
What they did to Santo was an absolute disgrace.

I lost all respect for the MLB HOF after that.
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  #23  
Old 11-10-2018, 03:40 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
Part of the argument against Santo was that there were already so many HOFers from a Cubs team that never won anything. If they had so many great, great players, why didn't they win?
I don't understand that argument. Baseball is a team sport. Teams have 25 players at any on time. There are numerous intangibles that contribute to a team's success. Just because, say, three of those 25 players (Fergie, Ernie, Billy Williams) are HOF's, there should be a moratorium on electing other players that may be deserving and other individual career accomplishments can't be highlighted? That seems highly unfair and ridiculous.

I didn't think Santo should be elected to the HOF, but not because the team never won anything.
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:19 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Originally Posted by SaltyPretzel View Post
Watch at 3:26:40 the play he made on Tom Seaver's 300th win. I was there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbiyVuC3Af8
^This video is gold. Love the postgamer interview in the dugout with DD and Seaver. Then EE and JR show up at the end in an awkward moment.
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  #25  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:08 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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^This video is gold. Love the postgamer interview in the dugout with DD and Seaver. Then EE and JR show up at the end in an awkward moment.

Great video. I just wish Baines had two healthy knees. Seaver: an all time great.
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  #26  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:42 AM
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The catch by Baines in the 9th is a forgotten White Sox moment. So amazing.

I could watch that interview with Seaver and Drysdale ten times in a row and never get sick of it. Just two guys talking shop.

Loved Ozzie coming to the mound in the 9th with Fisk and Duncan. I can handle young Ozzie.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:58 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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What they did to Santo was an absolute disgrace.

I lost all respect for the MLB HOF after that.
What Santo did whining and moaning and bitching was also a disgrace. Santo for example used his medical history / situation to try to elicit support for the Hall.

In fact Santo was told by doctors to stop drinking because with his diabetes it could lead to very serious consequences...he kept drinking anyway. He loved his vodka. Very hard to feel sorry for someone who hasn't the sense to help themselves.

Had the chance to sit with "Moose" Skowron in one of the boxes next to the radio booth at the stadium in 2006 and we talked for a long time. Somehow the subject of Santo came up (I don't remember how) and Skowron exploded, calling him every name in the book. It was hard to keep from laughing because the outrage was so funny.

He basically said Santo couldn't carry the jock of guys in the Hall and didn't deserve to be there.

I thought Santo's stats were borderline but you could certainly make a case he belonged. But what lost me was like I said, the prostrating himself. That was an embarrassment to himself and to the Hall in my opinion. I lost all my respect for him (as a former Sox player) because of that crap.
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