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  #61  
Old 02-27-2018, 06:22 AM
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Chez Chez is offline
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Fire them all! Fire Herm! Fire Kenny! Fire Coop! Fire Bossard! Fire Benetti! All are complicit in the Reinsdorf Injury Culture. Then fire Burger's parents for giving him the bad Achilles genes! Someone must be held accountable.
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  #62  
Old 02-27-2018, 08:05 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by TommyJohn View Post
Jake Burger at least broke the pattern. Usually Sox third basemen wait until they are a couple of years into a promising career before getting derailed by injuries, and even then it's always the back (Pete Ward, Bill Melton, Joe Crede).
What is the recovery rate for an achillies tendon? I know it'll set back Burger a year or so, but is it something he can expect a full recovery from?

A back injury, as happened to those other players, would definitely be bad news. Same goes for a pitcher with a shoulder injury.
  #63  
Old 02-27-2018, 08:19 AM
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We don't yet know the extent of Burger's injury. It looked bad enough to be a rupture but hopefully it'll be just a bad sprain that won't delay his progress for too long. Fingers crossed.

A rupture would be worst-case scenario as that will set him back a full year and it puts his future at 3B to be questionable at best. Him, Eloy, and Adolfo getting hurt in the last couple of days is not a great start so I hope it's just a string of bad luck.
  #64  
Old 02-27-2018, 09:16 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney
Which would be fine, IF the White Sox existed in a vacuum. They donít.

The injury rate here is nothing out of the ordinary. Injuries are part of the game and should be expected. Throwing a baseball as fast as humanly possible (or with as much movement as possible) several thousand times a year is one of the most awkward movements in sports.

Do you have any proof whatsoever that the medical people are doing something wrong?
Agreed. We can't have it both ways - first shouting WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS TEAM?! and then dismissing any suggestions that their injury rate is average for the league by saying you don't give a rat's ass about other teams.

What's going on? Like you said, injuries are part of the game. They suck but they happen. Teams can insulate themselves against them buy building up depth in their system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asindc
Are you suggesting that the Sox tell the whole world about the internal workings of any individual playerís injury? That seems counter-intuitive to me.

As for Burgerís injury, nothing about it suggests negligence on anyoneís part with the possible exception of the player himself. Casting suspicion on the Sox staff for the rash of injuries the past two years is like criticizing a pitcher for giving up 5 runs in his past two starts when he had a 2.25 ERA in his previous 15 starts, the best stretch in the league during that time.
Well said.

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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo
I too have concerns with Jerry Reinsdorf as owner, but essentially to imply that he allows a culture to persist in which players are given substandard medical treatment after being injured at higher rates from substandard training practices, is beyond the pale.
I also agree with this. I haven't seen anything to suggest that Sox management or trainers are negligent or incompetent with regards to keeping players healthy.

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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
Fire them all! Fire Herm! Fire Kenny! Fire Coop! Fire Bossard! Fire Benetti! All are complicit in the Reinsdorf Injury Culture. Then fire Burger's parents for giving him the bad Achilles genes! Someone must be held accountable.
No blame for Southpaw?
  #65  
Old 02-27-2018, 09:22 AM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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I guess I don't know why, in spite of evidence that shows the Sox injuries rates are not unusually high compared to 29 others teams, the accepted theory for some is that it's related to their training and conditioning programs. It completely ignores statistics in favor of a 'hunch.' I'd tend to agree if there were a litany of hamstring injuries but achilles injuries are largely a matter of genetics mixed with bad luck.

Let's try to look at the bright side - Jiminez said it isn't a serious injury and Renteria said they're just being cautious and we don't know yet the extent of Burger's injury. Rodon and Burdi are said to be on track in their recovery efforts and Adolfo might be able to DH all season.

It certainly looks like a ruptured achilles but even if that is the case, it shouldn't jeopardize his career. It's a much more devastating injury for basketball players but there are plenty of NFL players that have recovered and performed well. Jason Peters ruptured his achilles tendon in 2012 and made the pro bowl the following season and did so at a position that relies on explosiveness.
  #66  
Old 02-27-2018, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
We don't yet know the extent of Burger's injury. It looked bad enough to be a rupture but hopefully it'll be just a bad sprain that won't delay his progress for too long. Fingers crossed.

A rupture would be worst-case scenario as that will set him back a full year and it puts his future at 3B to be questionable at best. Him, Eloy, and Adolfo getting hurt in the last couple of days is not a great start so I hope it's just a string of bad luck.
It's indeed a rupture. Just have to pray this isn't Jared Mitchell 2.0.
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  #67  
Old 02-27-2018, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Agreed. We can't have it both ways - first shouting WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS TEAM?! and then dismissing any suggestions that their injury rate is average for the league by saying you don't give a rat's ass about other teams.

What's going on? Like you said, injuries are part of the game. They suck but they happen. Teams can insulate themselves against them buy building up depth in their system.



Well said.



I also agree with this. I haven't seen anything to suggest that Sox management or trainers are negligent or incompetent with regards to keeping players healthy.



No blame for Southpaw?
Hell, fire Lori!
  #68  
Old 02-27-2018, 11:16 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
What is the recovery rate for an achillies tendon? I know it'll set back Burger a year or so, but is it something he can expect a full recovery from?

A back injury, as happened to those other players, would definitely be bad news. Same goes for a pitcher with a shoulder injury.
Talking with an athletic trainer and he said the best case scenario is that he may be able to participate in the Arizona Fall League come November but that it is going to be a long road back.
  #69  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:43 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
It's indeed a rupture. Just have to pray this isn't Jared Mitchell 2.0.
Mitchell's game was built much more on speed though. My limited understanding is that Burger is more of a refined baseball player where as Mitchell was a raw athlete who the Sox hoped to turn into a baseball player. Not that the injury isn't serious though.
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  #70  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:43 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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I not really that upset about the Burger injury. This would be a tragic blow if he was an established star. Looking at this organizations track record of bust draft choices makes an injury like this easier to take. I do understand Lips take on the injury bug. It may be just what happens but with this dysfunctional organization who knows? Until this organization can prove that it can succeed at something, Im leery about everything also.
  #71  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:45 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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I'm more devastated by this injury than any other of recent memory.

This simply can't happen along the way of the rebuild or we will be the team that had Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, Jose Abreu, David Robertson, Todd Frazier, Adam Eaton as both players and assets and couldn't build a winner either way. Which I think would be the lowest point of this organization.

We HAVE to hit on some of these draft picks. Right now of recent memory is Rodon who is a question mark, Fulmer who is a question mark, Burger who now becomes a question mark...I'm forgetting some but the point is the players we draft have to contribute and it doesn't look good right now.

The trade prospects are great and hopefully live up to the hype but we have to as an organization learn how to successfully draft players. Bad luck or not we've missed a hell of lot more than not.
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  #72  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:49 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Talking with an athletic trainer and he said the best case scenario is that he may be able to participate in the Arizona Fall League come November but that it is going to be a long road back.
Most of what I read with respect to professional athletes put 11 months as the average recovery time. Hopefully, he'll be able to resume training before then, but I think his next real game will be in '19.
  #73  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
What is the recovery rate for an achillies tendon? I know it'll set back Burger a year or so, but is it something he can expect a full recovery from?

A back injury, as happened to those other players, would definitely be bad news. Same goes for a pitcher with a shoulder injury.
6 to 9 months.

The only silver lining I take from it is the fact that we didn't expect Burger to make a living with blazing speed anyway. That is not one of his tools. I'd be more concerned if speed were an important part of his game.

In the bigger picture, the Sox continue to not have much luck with their own draft picks. With the notable exception of Alec Hansen, the prospects we're talking about with excitement are guys who were acquired in trades over the past 12 to 15 months.

If this rebuild is to work, the Sox have to find productive major leaguers out of their own draft picks. Burger was one of the guys that a lot of people had hopes for in that regard, and obviously, this is a huge setback for him in his career.
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  #74  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
I'm more devastated by this injury than any other of recent memory.

This simply can't happen along the way of the rebuild or we will be the team that had Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, Jose Abreu, David Robertson, Todd Frazier, Adam Eaton as both players and assets and couldn't build a winner either way. Which I think would be the lowest point of this organization.

We HAVE to hit on some of these draft picks. Right now of recent memory is Rodon who is a question mark, Fulmer who is a question mark, Burger who now becomes a question mark...I'm forgetting some but the point is the players we draft have to contribute and it doesn't look good right now.


The trade prospects are great and hopefully live up to the hype but we have to as an organization learn how to successfully draft players. Bad luck or not we've missed a hell of lot more than not.
Agree 100 percent, and I'd throw Burdi in there, too. Sox invested a top pick on him, and he's on the shelf after TJ surgery.

Even if Moncada, Kopech and Eloy all become standouts, stars and scrubs doesn't work. The Sox will need to build a roster around them, and that's going to need to include hitting on some of their own draft picks.

You win with depth and balance.
  #75  
Old 02-27-2018, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post

Now that they've decided to rebuild, THE VERY LAST THING THEY NEED are injuries to the kids they are pinning their hopes around.
This is why teams draft multiple players at the same position. If this organization is pinning their hopes on one guy at each position to pan out then the rebuild is doomed. But if the philosophy is to draft many players at one position to see which one emerges at the top then all this crying over someone getting hurt is moot. I haven't seen anything from the organization that indicates Jake Burger was the sole hope for the future of 3B for the White Sox. Same for Burdi and Adolfo and insert any other player name here.
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