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  #16  
Old 05-16-2018, 05:21 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Avilan and Soria make $11.45 million combined (Soria $9 million, Avilan $2.45 million). The White Sox are receiving $3 million to offset some of that. Theyíre paying $8.45 million for 100+ innings. That is not expensive in the modern game, especially when the payroll is only $71 million with those salaries included.
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I don't have a problem with any of it - just trying to find some support for the notion that they somehow could have done better.
So, it's not really the oft-repeated "$8M for Soria" complaint after all. It's $8.45M for both Soria and Avilan.

Is that still a terrible deal for the Sox reflective of incompetent front office decision making? Whether people think yes or no, we should at least stick with the facts as far as money spent goes.
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  #17  
Old 05-16-2018, 05:23 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Santiago pitched well today. Didn't matter. I don't think Soria will be a flip candidate in July. He's done.

Not much BABIP luck there in the ninth inning. Anderson, Moncada and Abreu all hit it hard. But when you're the worst team in baseball, and potentially one of the worst teams in the history of the sport, nothing is going to fall in.
If by flip you mean released, yea I'd say so. Two losses and two blown saves already. Guy is toast.

Lose another game because a guy can't make a fundamental play...actually touching the base on the force.
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  #18  
Old 05-16-2018, 07:21 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
If by flip you mean released, yea I'd say so. Two losses and two blown saves already. Guy is toast.

Lose another game because a guy can't make a fundamental play...actually touching the base on the force.
The play sucked- but it didn't change the outcome of the game- they were already down 3-2 and they pitched over the error by Sanchez.
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  #19  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:16 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Avilan and Soria make $11.45 million combined (Soria $9 million, Avilan $2.45 million). The White Sox are receiving $3 million to offset some of that. They’re paying $8.45 million for 100+ innings. That is not expensive in the modern game, especially when the payroll is only $71 million with those salaries included.
$8 million buys a lot better than that. Swarzak went for 2/$14. Yea I know he's hurt - that's better than Soria.

And now Renteria says he wants Yolmer to play OF. Yolmer should concentrate on one thing: his hitting and plate discipline. He has a chance to be a nice player.

Last edited by Tragg; 05-16-2018 at 08:25 PM.
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  #20  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:21 PM
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tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
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Rickyís boys donít quit, theyíre just bad at baseball.
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  #21  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:36 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by Tragg
$8 million buys a lot better than that. Swarzak went for 2/$14. Yea I know he's hurt - that's better than Soria.

And now Renteria says he wants Yolmer to play OF. Yolmer should concentrate on one thing: his hitting and plate discipline. He has a chance to be a nice player.
Yes. They could have spent $8 million on one decent pitcher. $8 million on one OK pitcher and one has-been is a better use of the money in a rebuilding year. The commitments donít go past 2018, and more innings are covered.

Bad teams donít need good relievers.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:38 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by Tragg
And now Renteria says he wants Yolmer to play OF.
ďThis time...DíOH!Ē
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
Not like it had too much of an effect on the outcome (at least from when I was able to watch during the day), but cripes was the ump's strike zone terrible. At least he called it both ways, but it was really not good.
We really don't know that. The metrics boys have plenty of stuff about players within the bubble of the spreadsheet, but precious little about how inconsistent umpire strike zones affect those player outcomes. Young players like Anderson, trying to master the major league strike zone, are getting killed by pitches off the plate called strikes. Whether it's striking out looking on a ball three inches inside or trying to cover a pitch three inches outside that was called a strike earlier in the count, the crappy home plate umpiring is hindering young player development. But you don't see that in advanced metrics.
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  #24  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:40 AM
RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
Watched "The Natural" (again) over the weekend.

This team is like watching the New York Knights without Roy Hobbs.

Y. Sanchez not having his foot on the base for the force out at 2nd base in the 8th was inexcusable.

Mediocre players do not typically play good baseball- but this team makes dumb mistakes daily that are completely independent of talent level. I'm beginning to question Rentaria's effectiveness as a manager- if he's truly a good teacher- he better take these guys back to spring training/fundamentals and start really ****ing teaching.

Another nice outing by Fry- would be nice to see a home grown quality addition to the bullpen.


Basic fundamentals should have been attained well before these players had been promoted to the Majors. I just canít believe the absolutely poor baseball mistakes this team makes on a daily basis. I have watched a lot of other teams this year and the Sox seem to make most basic mistakes by far!
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  #25  
Old 05-17-2018, 10:19 AM
MinnieMinoso MinnieMinoso is offline
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Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
We really don't know that. The metrics boys have plenty of stuff about players within the bubble of the spreadsheet, but precious little about how inconsistent umpire strike zones affect those player outcomes. Young players like Anderson, trying to master the major league strike zone, are getting killed by pitches off the plate called strikes. Whether it's striking out looking on a ball three inches inside or trying to cover a pitch three inches outside that was called a strike earlier in the count, the crappy home plate umpiring is hindering young player development. But you don't see that in advanced metrics.

I certainly agree with you on this one. It also has an equal effect on pitchers where umps make the pitcher throw the ball into a teacup strike zone or it's called a ball. There must be some way to grade these umps occasionally to see if they should continue as major league umps. They have an enormous effect on the outcome of games. I may be wrong but it seems that umps are harder on rookie batters and pitchers in the way that they call the game.
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  #26  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:10 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by RCWHITESOX View Post
Basic fundamentals should have been attained well before these players had been promoted to the Majors. I just canít believe the absolutely poor baseball mistakes this team makes on a daily basis. I have watched a lot of other teams this year and the Sox seem to make most basic mistakes by far!
Correct.
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  #27  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:35 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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There really are no excuses to not play good fundamental baseball. Not having skills to do things is one thing but to not to try do things correctly is another. If I was a manager and a player threw to the wrong base, didnt try to hit a cutoff off man when it was the correct thing to do, base running blunders etc. I would pull them out of the game immediately no matter who the player was. And yes I wouldnt have that job for long unless I was owner/manager.
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  #28  
Old 05-17-2018, 01:19 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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If every player could play sound, fundamental baseball and have the instincts to execute properly in real time then every MLB team would be full of those types of players. But that's not reality. When someone like Moncada or Anderson make stupid plays I get upset because I expect more of those guys since they are the future. But for the Palkas, Engels, Garcias, DelMonicos, etc of the world I don't have those sorts of expectations. They are AAAA filler, and there is a reason why those guys won't be around in MLB in a few years. To expect those type of players to execute sound fundamental baseball on a day in and day out basis is unrealistic.
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  #29  
Old 05-17-2018, 01:50 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
If every player could play sound, fundamental baseball and have the instincts to execute properly in real time then every MLB team would be full of those types of players. But that's not reality. When someone like Moncada or Anderson make stupid plays I get upset because I expect more of those guys since they are the future. But for the Palkas, Engels, Garcias, DelMonicos, etc of the world I don't have those sorts of expectations. They are AAAA filler, and there is a reason why those guys won't be around in MLB in a few years. To expect those type of players to execute sound fundamental baseball on a day in and day out basis is unrealistic.
Maybe...some truth here. But then again by actively working on the fundamentals say before games on off-days, in theory will improve that situation correct?

What's the old saying, "practice makes perfect..."

So the question then is, are these guys even being told to or working on their own in these areas? If so, that's great...things should get better.

If not? Then WHY not?
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  #30  
Old 05-17-2018, 02:13 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
If every player could play sound, fundamental baseball and have the instincts to execute properly in real time then every MLB team would be full of those types of players. But that's not reality. When someone like Moncada or Anderson make stupid plays I get upset because I expect more of those guys since they are the future. But for the Palkas, Engels, Garcias, DelMonicos, etc of the world I don't have those sorts of expectations. They are AAAA filler, and there is a reason why those guys won't be around in MLB in a few years. To expect those type of players to execute sound fundamental baseball on a day in and day out basis is unrealistic.
Agreed. It is just a skill they do not possess, or possess but to a lesser degree than an average player. This is like missing assignments/blocks or running wrong routes in football. You're not going to be able to just coach some players to get it right - they cannot get it right at the pro level; they are just not as good as what we think the average player is.
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