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  #61  
Old 10-04-2018, 09:25 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Robles got back from an injury and posted a .874 OPS in 21 games this year and he is still only 21 years old. Hardly a disappointment.
He was supposed to be what Juan Soto is - except with gold glove defense.
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  #62  
Old 10-04-2018, 11:38 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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He was supposed to be what Juan Soto is - except with gold glove defense.
And maybe he is. He just had a post-injury cup of September coffee. Can we hold off on the hot take analysis?
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  #63  
Old 10-04-2018, 12:26 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by 3322735
Are you saying that you believe that he still potentially has the ceiling of being a top 5 player in the game?
Yes. That is exactly what we are saying. Yoan Moncada looks a lot like Javy Baez looked through a similar number of plate appearances, and I think Baez would be in any discussion of the top-5 position players in the game this year.
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  #64  
Old 10-04-2018, 12:43 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Yes. That is exactly what we are saying. Yoan Moncada looks a lot like Javy Baez looked through a similar number of plate appearances, and I think Baez would be in any discussion of the top-5 position players in the game this year.
Maybe in plate appearances but, Baez was and is vastly superior to Moncada in fielding playing multiple infield positions. This also makes him possibly the best position player in MLB. I don't believe Moncada will ever be this good defensively.
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  #65  
Old 10-04-2018, 12:43 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Originally Posted by lpneck View Post
Are you saying that you believe that he still potentially has the ceiling of being a top 5 player in the game?

I'm not saying that WAR is or should be the definitive list of how to rank players by ability, but I think that the guy who ranks #206 in WAR for the season is pretty far removed from the conversation of "could be a top 5 player in baseball."
First of all, I qualified it.

And yes.
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  #66  
Old 10-04-2018, 01:08 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by mzh View Post
Sale netted them the number 1 prospect in baseball and a guy who within 10 months was the best pitching prospect in baseball... but they didnít get a premium? Okay.

Eaton netted them two major league caliber starting pitchers, with a third possibly on the way. Still not sure what the problem with this is, because everybody who isnít you said and still says the Nationals significantly overpaid.

You just keep beating the same points into the ground over and over and they keep getting rebutted over and over. Not sure what youíre getting out of it but it kind of negates the point of discussion since you seem so dead set on this particular narrative.
Thank you for saving me the trouble of typing this. Holy cow. Adam Eaton, an oft injured, good defensive, so so offensive player who has been known to be a clubhouse cancer in 2 locations (AZ and Chicago) nets 3 top 100 specs, and now we know 3 guys who will be at one time top 50 or better, and we don't like the move?

I feel like if some posters don't like Rick Hahn, then unless they get Mike Trout back in a trade, Hahn lost the deal.
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  #67  
Old 10-04-2018, 01:21 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Yes. That is exactly what we are saying. Yoan Moncada looks a lot like Javy Baez looked through a similar number of plate appearances, and I think Baez would be in any discussion of the top-5 position players in the game this year.
I don't know that he will be top 5. If he hits his Cano like ceiling, I don't know if Cano was ever a top 5 player but he was a top 20 and in that 10-20 world its all a crapshoot and opinion anyway.

Moncada was just TOO patient last year, and very inconsistent. I think there is some maturity that will happen there.

He is frustrating because he is extremely athletic and could be a very good defensive 2b, his errors almost seem mental, like the length of a long losing season just got to him.

I think he has potential to be a good player, especially in the current game (and lord lets not open that debate again). I can't say its his floor, nor his ceiling, but if I had to peg him as a player, I could see a solid defensive 2b who is a .250-.375-.450 slasher with 20-20 capability.
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  #68  
Old 10-04-2018, 01:23 PM
lpneck lpneck is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
First of all, I qualified it.

And yes.
I wasn't being critical. I'm not nearly that optimistic, but I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I just wasn't sure from your qualifier if you meant that his ceiling was top 5 when the Sox traded for him and has been lowered, or if you meant that he still has that ceiling today.
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  #69  
Old 10-04-2018, 01:47 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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It does not stop amazing me how some people look at a prospect's development production and already project the trades to be a "lost."
Giolito, Moncada, R. Lopez, etc. are still developing despite playing in The Show this year.
Sale and Eaton were established players when they were traded.

Also, do I have remind everyone how shocked we were that Eaton got the haul we received? It just goes to show that the general public (us) and the MLB teams (them) have a huge information gulf between each other on each player.

It is rare that a top prospect comes out of the gate at 11 on the 1-10 scale.
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  #70  
Old 10-04-2018, 06:08 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
It does not stop amazing me how some people look at a prospect's development production and already project the trades to be a "lost."
Giolito, Moncada, R. Lopez, etc. are still developing despite playing in The Show this year.
Sale and Eaton were established players when they were traded.

Also, do I have remind everyone how shocked we were that Eaton got the haul we received? It just goes to show that the general public (us) and the MLB teams (them) have a huge information gulf between each other on each player.

It is rare that a top prospect comes out of the gate at 11 on the 1-10 scale.
Is it really that rare though? I can point to more than a handful of players who hit the ground running and never looked back over the last 5 seasons.
Lindor
Bryant
Correa
Bregman
Acuna
Soto
just off the top of my head, there are more that I'm not thinking of.
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  #71  
Old 10-04-2018, 06:15 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Originally Posted by lpneck View Post
I wasn't being critical. I'm not nearly that optimistic, but I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I just wasn't sure from your qualifier if you meant that his ceiling was top 5 when the Sox traded for him and has been lowered, or if you meant that he still has that ceiling today.
I think he still has that ceiling, but I am not sure he will reach it.

He is an athletic freak, has insane pop, has good bat control, etc.

Basically, imagine what happens if he hits .250? Fringe all star?

What if he hits .280? Superstar?

We're looking at the bottom of the guy, and this is an average player at his bottom.
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  #72  
Old 10-04-2018, 07:33 PM
chisox59 chisox59 is offline
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To answer the thread title this is not what I wanted but based on the makeup of our roster it’s what I expected. Our 25 man roster was filled for the most part with less than league average or AAAA players. We have maybe 4 position players that are expected to be part of this team when they are ready to complete….Moncada, Anderson, Sanchez (as a utility player) and possibly Narvaez. The rest all appear to be fill-ins until current minor league players are ready or they are replaced by a free agent signing or trade. Our starting staff was to be comprised of two veterans and 3 future rotation fixtures. Gonzalez was basically gone for the whole season and while Shields was an innings eater he was still just that while we wait for Kopech, etc. to be recalled. The younger pitchers on the staff are all still learning what it takes to succeed as an MLB pitcher. The bullpen was made up of flip candidates and again less than stellar MLB performance pitchers. All the young guys are going to experience growing pains and the hope is that the knowledge they gain will result in a more positive performance in the future.

In contrast to many opinions on Rick Renteria I feel he did exactly the job he should be doing with a team that’s rebuilding. There are many that complain about the bunting and the frequent bullpen changes. If you ever take the time to listen to him when he gives an interview you’ll understand why. He calls for the bunt not because it’s necessarily the best option but to see if the hitter can execute when called on in a game situation. The result helps in evaluating the skills of the player. I’m sure there were many situations where the hitter was called upon to move a runner over to 3rd by hitting the ball to the right side. Success or failure was also part of the evaluation. As far as the pitching changes go a lot of it had to do with determining how a reliever can handle a given situation. Is he a bundle of nerves or does he have ice water in his veins in a crucial situation. How does he perform at the start of the inning as opposed to a tense situation? You find out these things when the games don’t mean as much so you’ll know what kind of player you have when you’re finally ready to compete.
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  #73  
Old 10-04-2018, 08:10 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Paulwny View Post
Maybe in plate appearances but, Baez was and is vastly superior to Moncada in fielding playing multiple infield positions. This also makes him possibly the best position player in MLB. I don't believe Moncada will ever be this good defensively.
Conversely, Baez has a swing and miss rate so high that his current level of production is probably a fluke. I'm expecting him to fall back to Earth next year, especially with the prevalence of analytics. People are going to figure him out.
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  #74  
Old 10-04-2018, 09:03 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Conversely, Baez has a swing and miss rate so high that his current level of production is probably a fluke. I'm expecting him to fall back to Earth next year, especially with the prevalence of analytics. People are going to figure him out.
I was replying to Mahoney's comparison of Moncada looking a lot like Baez. My reply was that Baez was a far superior infielder. If Mahoney is correct that Moncada and Baez are similar offensively and you are correct that the league will adjust to Baez, therefore Moncada has no chance.
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  #75  
Old 10-04-2018, 09:47 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Paulwny View Post
I was replying to Mahoney's comparison of Moncada looking a lot like Baez. My reply was that Baez was a far superior infielder. If Mahoney is correct that Moncada and Baez are similar offensively and you are correct that the league will adjust to Baez, therefore Moncada has no chance.
You're probably not going to get an ounce of credit but that reply made my day. I shouldn't have to add any qualifier but not because I want or am sure that Moncada will fail.
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