#1
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Hawk will be on the MLB Network, Brian Kenney sabermetics show this afternoon starting at 3PM Chicago time.
Lip |
#2
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I read this yesterday on NBC Sports. Does Hawk really want to embarrass himself more than he already does? I hate statistical analysis as much as the next guy (I needed two tries to pass that damn class in grad school), but they aren't completely useless. Hawk lives in this world where is right, and if you don't agree with him, he gets pissy.
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#3
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They have clips of him bashing sabermetrics on the Bors and Bernstein show.
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![]() YOUR 2005 WORLD CHAMPION CHICAGO WHITE SOX ![]() |
#4
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Not defending or disagreeing with Hawk's position per se but one of his points that I think has been overlooked in the furor over his comments has been the human element.
One of Hawk's positions is that good baseball people are being let go because some organizations feel a computer can do a better job of talent evaluation than a human being. And there is some truth to that, Washington let a number of people go for example, including former Sox pitcher Bart Johnson as they invested more heavily on the numbers approach to things. Read the story on the Mariners this week in S.I. and the supposed boatload of youg talent they have and was impressed with their G.M.'s comments on all this. "You sit in a room with all your scouting people, you let them know how important they are, that they really are the lifeblood of what we're trying to do." I think to a good extent this is what Hawk is upset about. Lip |
#5
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Whether or not you agree with Hawk, he's likely to get steamrolled in this one.
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Ridiculousness across all sports: (1) "You have no valid opinion because you never played the game." (2) "Stats are irrelevant. This guy just doesn't know how to win." |
#6
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The problem is, guys like Hawk and other old timers completely dismiss it completely. Computers are a way of life and not just for advanced users anymore. Yes, they are replacing jobs of people, but that's been the case for over 15 years now. It's not going to change. "I hate computers. They are ruining the country." -Al Bundy, 1989 |
#7
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I can't say what I want without opening up a giant can of worms. I'll just say that many businesses have lost both the arts of commons sense and evaluation. Particularly evaluation. You can never take a bloodless look at numbers no matter what your business is. It is so shorsighted and unproductive. As for Hawk, kittle will probably be right. Hawk could get steamrolled badly. It wouldn't make him wrong though.
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#8
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I'm sure they'll have a well-reasoned, professional, non-shouty discussion.
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#9
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I love computers and numbers are a valuable tool to be used. My computer makes it possible for me to watch White Sox baseball from where I live (not always a rewarding experience!). It helps me enormously when writing and recording music. But I would never let a computer make a decision or call the shots.
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#10
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#11
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His overall point though I THINK was that there are psychological elements that come into play that can't be quantified. You can use any cliche you would like, but there are in fact some guys who wilt under pressure, who can't play in large markets and some guys and teams who are able to produce more than the sum total of their parts would suggest. The reasons for that can't be quantified and I doubt they ever will be but they need to at least be acknowledged when you are talking about stats and player evaluation.
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#12
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#13
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One of Hawk's favorite Hawkisms is how he likes the lower drafted pitchers,because they often have not excelled on their superior stuff,but more on their competitiveness,and mound presence.
I think this is the essence of his issue with the sabremeticians dominating the personnel aspect of baseball. Also, I think he is still holding a grudge against Billy Beane from the comments attributed to Beane in MoneyBall that were unkind to Kenny Williams and the Sox. That is where Hawk goes off the rails...and if he lets that surface,he will look dumb. Kenney as acknowledged that he likes to listen to Hawk do games,and that Hawk was not ungracious toward Kenney in this debate. It goes back to Hawk hating B & B also....gutless wonders that they are. |
#14
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Sorry Hawk, just because the Sox act like a charity and keep your worthless ass around for no reason, good teams that actually, you know, win? Don't behave that way.
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#9 2015 Obligatory Attendance/Record Tracker 1-2 LAST GAME: May 22 - Sox 3, Twins 2 NEXT GAME: June 8 - Sox vs. Astros Last edited by doublem23; 04-25-2013 at 03:09 PM. |
#15
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The Nationals were very fortunate to have the number 1 pick 2 times when there clearly was one player above all others. Any team not using sabermetrics at all would have drafted Strasberg and Harper. |
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