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  #1  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:50 PM
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thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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Default Comparing this rebuild to the Cubs'

I don't understand why Sox fans have a problem with comparing the rebuild to the one the Cubs embarked on. The way I see it, the parallels are lining up so far. The Cubs were terrible in 2012 and 2013 just like the Sox were the past two seasons. The Cubs started to turn a corner in 2014, but weren't there yet. This year's Sox seem to be headed toward that direction. I say why not make the comparison? It's an example of a successful rebuild that happened right here in our city, and the Sox are following the same timeline. Call me what you want, but I've been comparing our rebuild with the Cubs' timeline practically since Sale was traded. Has anyone else?
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:51 AM
jfinsocal jfinsocal is offline
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I'd hope that the better comparison would be Houston but frankly I'd take either.
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  #3  
Old 06-20-2019, 05:21 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Why all this comparisons stuff? Each rebuild is unique to an organization. Just execute your plan; forget the other teams.
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  #4  
Old 06-20-2019, 09:05 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
I don't understand why Sox fans have a problem with comparing the rebuild to the one the Cubs embarked on. The way I see it, the parallels are lining up so far. The Cubs were terrible in 2012 and 2013 just like the Sox were the past two seasons. The Cubs started to turn a corner in 2014, but weren't there yet. This year's Sox seem to be headed toward that direction. I say why not make the comparison? It's an example of a successful rebuild that happened right here in our city, and the Sox are following the same timeline. Call me what you want, but I've been comparing our rebuild with the Cubs' timeline practically since Sale was traded. Has anyone else?
Because it doesn't fit the narrative that our rebuild is far behind schedule and coming apart at the seams?

I agree. The Crosstown Series is a good time to look back and see how the Cubs progressed after they blew everything up after the 2011 season. The Sox are in Year 3 of their rebuild now and hovering just under .500. In Year 3 of their rebuild, the 2014 Cubs were 31-41 on June 21 and finished with 89 losses.

The only future mainstay in their starting lineup was Anthony Rizzo. By comparison, we have Anderson, Moncada, and Jimenez. Their starting pitching was better at that point than ours is now, but we have Kopech coming back next spring and Cease may come up in the next few months.

Of course, the progress of any 2 teams isn't going to a total mirror image. But, I think it's worthwhile to make the comparison and note the similarities in our progress.
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  #5  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:44 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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I think you could draw certain comparisons between this year's Sox and the 2014 Cubs, but if I recall correctly the 2014 Cubs had a few more trade chips they were able to deal (Samardzija in particular had real good first half). That Cubs team looked like it had at least two pieces they could build around, Rizzo and Starlin Castro, and then they wound up getting a diamond in the rough with Jake Arrieta.

I am less certain the Sox front office/ownership will be as aggressive as the Cubs were in the offseason. The Cubs had no qualms about firing Renteria to get a better manager and then went out and spent a ton of money on Lester and Dexter Fowler.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:06 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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They lucked into Arrieta and there is no Jon Lester on the FA market for the Sox to get now.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:06 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
I don't understand why Sox fans have a problem with comparing the rebuild to the one the Cubs embarked on. The way I see it, the parallels are lining up so far. The Cubs were terrible in 2012 and 2013 just like the Sox were the past two seasons. The Cubs started to turn a corner in 2014, but weren't there yet. This year's Sox seem to be headed toward that direction. I say why not make the comparison? It's an example of a successful rebuild that happened right here in our city, and the Sox are following the same timeline. Call me what you want, but I've been comparing our rebuild with the Cubs' timeline practically since Sale was traded. Has anyone else?
That should be the timeline and standard that decision makers are held up to.
Just doesn't seem to be enough young pitching to contend next year; they don't seem to want to sign top FAs. And that leaves trades, and well, we have a history on that that doesn't inspire confidence.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:17 AM
jamokes jamokes is offline
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Sorry but I really don't trust Rick Hahn or anyone else in the FO to make a trade, which they will have to do.
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  #9  
Old 06-20-2019, 11:19 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
That should be the timeline and standard that decision makers are held up to.
Just doesn't seem to be enough young pitching to contend next year; they don't seem to want to sign top FAs. And that leaves trades, and well, we have a history on that that doesn't inspire confidence.
Well if this is the equivalent of the Cubs 2014 then the Sox would only be expected to be in the playoff mix next year and the WS comes in 2021. By then Dunning and Rodon should be back also, but the Sox may well have 4 starters next year - Gio, Kopech, Cease and Lopez who might all be quality starters. That leaves one slot to fill. Now there might be question marks with Kopech and Lopez for different reasons, but the Sox starting should be significantly improved from the crap shoot of cast offs and maybes it is this year.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:22 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Well if this is the equivalent of the Cubs 2014 then the Sox would only be expected to be in the playoff mix next year and the WS comes in 2021. By then Dunning and Rodon should be back also, but the Sox may well have 4 starters next year - Gio, Kopech, Cease and Lopez who might all be quality starters. That leaves one slot to fill. Now there might be question marks with Kopech and Lopez for different reasons, but the Sox starting should be significantly improved from the crap shoot of cast offs and maybes it is this year.
yes, 2020 would be the playoff year under the Cubs model (or the Astros model).
Even if Dunning and Kopech are all square for next season, it often takes good young pitchers a year or 2 to get situated. To use the Cubs analogy, they really could use their own Lester...maybe Rodon could be that, but he's never really pitched consistently well for a full season.
They pen should be good. I still see Lopez as a reliever, but a top-flight reliever.
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  #11  
Old 06-20-2019, 11:23 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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The Cubs rebuild took the next step when they went out in the offseason and signed an elite but old starter to what was then one of the biggest contracts in baseball. Unless we're going out and signing someone to a $300 million contract, our rebuild is more in line with that of teams like the Pirates, A's, and Rays.
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2019, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
yes, 2020 would be the playoff year under the Cubs model (or the Astros model).
Even if Dunning and Kopech are all square for next season, it often takes good young pitchers a year or 2 to get situated. To use the Cubs analogy, they really could use their own Lester...maybe Rodon could be that, but he's never really pitched consistently well for a full season.
They pen should be good. I still see Lopez as a reliever, but a top-flight reliever.
I was just thinking about this literally 15 minutes ago. If Lopez cannot cut it as a starter he has the making of a top of the line reliever and even closer if he can just lock down a second pitch to go with his big fastball.
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  #13  
Old 06-20-2019, 11:46 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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It's separate.

The Sox have not developed their own talent to the measure the Cubs or Astros have.

We have received quality pieces for really big players and have taken them as far as we can.

The rest of this will rely on player development internally.
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  #14  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:10 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Well if this is the equivalent of the Cubs 2014 then the Sox would only be expected to be in the playoff mix next year and the WS comes in 2021. By then Dunning and Rodon should be back also, but the Sox may well have 4 starters next year - Gio, Kopech, Cease and Lopez who might all be quality starters. That leaves one slot to fill. Now there might be question marks with Kopech and Lopez for different reasons, but the Sox starting should be significantly improved from the crap shoot of cast offs and maybes it is this year.
I really don't think you can count on Rodon to provide much of anything to the rotation at this point. He just can't seem to stay healthy.

However, I do agree that starting next year a rotation of Giolito, Kopech and Cease would vastly improve the team's ability to compete next year.
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  #15  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I really don't think you can count on Rodon to provide much of anything to the rotation at this point. He just can't seem to stay healthy.

However, I do agree that starting next year a rotation of Giolito, Kopech and Cease would vastly improve the team's ability to compete next year.
I'm still holding out hope Lopez will develop through this season and become a more consistent starter going forward. It's why he should continue to pitch every 5th day the rest of the year.
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