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  #106  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:45 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
I havent seen that here , all I can remember is seeing Dunn strolled out there daily.
Hasn't happened here because the Sox never had stud position player prospects coming up until the last few years.
  #107  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:48 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is online now
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Not a fan of this extension. Abreu will not be worth the salary by the end of the deal.

However:

- Abreu will come off the books before any of the current rebuild guys become FA's
- all of you who were saying that $18 million on Abreu in 2020 will prevent the Sox from signing a free agent beyond Grandal...well they just got a bit more short-term flexibility
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  #108  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:49 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
$18mil+ players get benched when they aren't performing. Especially when there is a young top prospect that is waiting in the wings at that position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
I havent seen that here , all I can remember is seeing Dunn strolled out there daily.

The Sox released John Danks in mid-May 2016 even though they still owed him $15.75M that season.
  #109  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:56 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
The Sox released John Danks in mid-May 2016 even though they still owed him $15.75M that season.

I dont think he could lift a ball at that point.
  #110  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:56 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
There was no assumption on my part. I said "might be a financial burden", which is true. Recent MLB players don't have a good track record of continuing production at ages 33-35.

Actually this is not true based on the latest studies in hitter production. While we all know that players begin to decline around age 29/30, the curve is not that dramatic until they turn 35. On average players decline about 1.5 to 2.0% in many accepted statistical categories from 30 to 35, but when they hit 36 it increases to about 3%.


Nice read here: https://thedynastyguru.com/2019/02/2...stats-part-ii/
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  #111  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Yeah, doing it again next offseason...reasonably I wouldn't expect him to get a multi-year deal. He'd probably go year to year, so those seasons would land in the $10-12 million range each if he's still productive. Ultimately, he's a White Sox while he can still play...so like I said it's not THAT much of an overpay.
Add in the fact he's a steady and respected veteran presence on a team that will be packed with youth and a fan favorite and you could say it's not really an overpay at all. Several players have commented on his work ethic and how he has helped them learn what it takes to be a professional and succeed at this level.
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  #112  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:03 PM
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Well yeah I know, that's why I said "raises". He will be getting $9.5mil that year which is over double he will be making this upcoming season. Eloy making 3x what he'll make in 2020, and Moncada and Giolito will be in Arb2 making over $10mil each.
Sorry. My mistake. I thought you were suggesting that all these players would be out of contract/control by 2022.
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  #113  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:03 PM
Zisk77 Zisk77 is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Not a fan of this extension. Abreu will not be worth the salary by the end of the deal.

However:

- Abreu will come off the books before any of the current rebuild guys become FA's
- all of you who were saying that $18 million on Abreu in 2020 will prevent the Sox from signing a free agent beyond Grandal...well they just got a bit more short-term flexibility
Maybe, but conceivably, he could still be quite productive in 3 yrs especially if he becomes a full time DH.
  #114  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:10 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
So from a payroll impact it's $16-$16-$14. That seems fine. In terms of the difference between salary and bonus, I think it has to do with what potential suspension or other reason for nonpayment. If Abreu was suspended, he'd forfeit/lose whatever portion of salary for that time. But bonuses, having been paid already, would not be subject to that. There's also just a time value impact of getting a chunk upfront v spread over the year.
I agree- I was expecting a 2 year deal with a club option/buy out for year 3- this is a little more than that with the 3rd year, but that's partially offset by the deferred money- I like the signals they're sending of investment, commitment, stability etc- so overall OK with it.
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  #115  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:19 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Add in the fact he's a steady and respected veteran presence on a team that will be packed with youth and a fan favorite and you could say it's not really an overpay at all. Several players have commented on his work ethic and how he has helped them learn what it takes to be a professional and succeed at this level.

That goes into deserved versus what he could reasonably earn. I'm happy for Jose, and I'd like to think those intangibles are why the team is paying him more than market as a thank you.
  #116  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:33 PM
CHISOXFAN13 CHISOXFAN13 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Add in the fact he's a steady and respected veteran presence on a team that will be packed with youth and a fan favorite and you could say it's not really an overpay at all. Several players have commented on his work ethic and how he has helped them learn what it takes to be a professional and succeed at this level.
The majority of fans on websites and social media don't like this contract, so not sure how him being a fan favorite makes any difference. I love Jose, but not at this cost.

Let's not act like this is a franchise that spends even league average money on a regular basis. There's legitimate reason to be concerned about how this deal may affect business in a couple years.

Outside of the Cardinals signing Molina, and hes a future HOF, I can't remember an overpay like this for a guy just because. It's the Jerry Way.
  #117  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:40 PM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by CHISOXFAN13 View Post
The majority of fans on websites and social media don't like this contract, so not sure how him being a fan favorite makes any difference. I love Jose, but not at this cost.

Let's not act like this is a franchise that spends even league average money on a regular basis. There's legitimate reason to be concerned about how this deal may affect business in a couple years.

Outside of the Cardinals signing Molina, and hes a future HOF, I can't remember an overpay like this for a guy just because. It's the Jerry Way.
I'm seeing the exact opposite in fan reactions on social media than you.
  #118  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:41 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Actually this is not true based on the latest studies in hitter production. While we all know that players begin to decline around age 29/30, the curve is not that dramatic until they turn 35. On average players decline about 1.5 to 2.0% in many accepted statistical categories from 30 to 35, but when they hit 36 it increases to about 3%.


Nice read here: https://thedynastyguru.com/2019/02/2...stats-part-ii/
Problem is that data comes from 1985-2018, players in the 80s, 90s, 00s were very successful deep into their careers. That does not seem to be the case anymore. Over the last 5 or so years, we have seen stars, good, and above average players take nose dives at a certain points in their 30s.
  #119  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:55 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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I had to let this sit for awhile, because my first reaction is that I didn't like the length. It's not a tremendous overpay, but like many I worry about a decline by the 3rd year, and by then we should have a replacement who will be just coming up in Vaughn. It seems like the deal was given out for sentimental reasons/intangibles.

That said, I guess I'm okay with it because intangibles/leadership are important ingredients on a winning team, as long as they don't let this hinder their pursuit of other acquisitions. I think we all like Jose, and I'm looking forward to seeing him at the next championship parade.
  #120  
Old 11-22-2019, 03:09 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by CHISOXFAN13 View Post
The majority of fans on websites and social media don't like this contract, so not sure how him being a fan favorite makes any difference. I love Jose, but not at this cost.
.
So I don't really know if that's true or not. I do know the fans who go on websites and social media in November are a very different group than the total fanbase. I suspect the general fan just likes Abreu and will be happy to have him for a few more years and not worry so much about money that isn't theirs.

Last edited by anewman35; 11-22-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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