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  #31  
Old 02-23-2018, 09:18 AM
Rocky Soprano Rocky Soprano is offline
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I'm not a fan of Moustakas but I would not mind a 1-2 year deal.
  #32  
Old 02-23-2018, 05:57 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Max 2 year deal- but not more than that.

I don't feel strongly either way- I'm a Yolmer Sanchez fan and don't mind him being our regular 3B for a season and seeing what he can do.

IMHO- Matt Davidson is not a factor and nothing more than a platoon DH (vs. LHP) and back up 1B/3B.
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Players that are an important part of the rebuild:
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  #33  
Old 02-24-2018, 08:20 AM
Heffalump Heffalump is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Absolutely not.
Another Frazier
Just not the time to load up with slightly above average players. You fill holes at the end with players like Moustakas. He's not a cornerstone.
Agreed. I want Hahn to stick with the rebuild. Moustakas is a solid player with only one very good season. We just started this rebuild, if we are going to do it, lets really give it a chance. Signing him for flipping purposes while forfeiting the draft pick is not smart, IMO. As shown by the lack of market, he is not that valuable.

Personally, I would love to see Yolmer get a real hard look at 3B this year. See if he can give us a Ray Durham like performance until we take a shot at Machado or let guys like Burger develop: Good hitter with moderate power, swipe 30 bases and play mega defense. I'd be very happy with that for this year. Overall, I'd love to see the Sox focus a bit more on defense and speed vs. slogging mid-tier sluggers with crappy OBP.

Last edited by Heffalump; 02-24-2018 at 08:40 AM.
  #34  
Old 02-24-2018, 09:59 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by Heffalump View Post
Agreed. I want Hahn to stick with the rebuild. Moustakas is a solid player with only one very good season. We just started this rebuild, if we are going to do it, lets really give it a chance. Signing him for flipping purposes while forfeiting the draft pick is not smart, IMO. As shown by the lack of market, he is not that valuable.

Personally, I would love to see Yolmer get a real hard look at 3B this year. See if he can give us a Ray Durham like performance until we take a shot at Machado or let guys like Burger develop: Good hitter with moderate power, swipe 30 bases and play mega defense. I'd be very happy with that for this year. Overall, I'd love to see the Sox focus a bit more on defense and speed vs. slogging mid-tier sluggers with crappy OBP.
Well said. Moustakas won’t yield much in return on a midsession flip trade. And in a rebuilding year, it’s better to use those ABs to see what the ceiling is on several players before the real star prospects like Eloy force their way onto the team.
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  #35  
Old 02-24-2018, 10:31 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Well said. Moustakas won’t yield much in return on a midsession flip trade. And in a rebuilding year, it’s better to use those ABs to see what the ceiling is on several players before the real star prospects like Eloy force their way onto the team.
Maybe Delmonico or Davidson gets hot for a few months and can be added as a sweetener to any trade to bring back more prospects when they flip some of these pitchers they signed at the deadline. Can't do that unless they are playing.
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  #36  
Old 02-25-2018, 01:26 AM
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Overall, I'd love to see the Sox focus a bit more on defense and speed vs. slogging mid-tier sluggers with crappy OBP.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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  #37  
Old 02-25-2018, 01:27 PM
WSox597 WSox597 is offline
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I'm also a fan of Yolmer and think he should be given a shot at 3B. He may never be an All Star, but he is more than serviceable there.
  #38  
Old 02-25-2018, 02:10 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Given the recent past of failure after failure in the free agent market that drove the Sox to change direction I can't understand why a guy like Moustakas would even be in the conversation. I mean after repeatedly banging your head against the wall you should remember how much it hurts.
  #39  
Old 02-25-2018, 03:03 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Heffalump

Personally, I would love to see Yolmer get a real hard look at 3B this year. See if he can give us a Ray Durham like performance until we take a shot at Machado or let guys like Burger develop: Good hitter with moderate power, swipe 30 bases and play mega defense. I'd be very happy with that for this year. Overall, I'd love to see the Sox focus a bit more on defense and speed vs. slogging mid-tier sluggers with crappy OBP.
Other than a true base-stealing savant along the lines of a Billy Hamilton, I don’t see Renteria allowing anyone on the team to make 30 stolen-base attempts, let alone to steal 30 bases. I would love to see a change in this department, but I’m not holding my breath.

For reference, Tim Anderson only made 16 attempts last year, even though only 1 attempt ended in failure. That is so far above the hypothetical “break-even point” of ~75% that I consider the lack of attempts to be a strategic mistake. I remember yelling at the TV set on several occasions when Renteria would opt for a sacrifice bunt instead of a straight steal with a speedy guy on 1B and nobody out. Why willingly give away an out just to advance the runner to 2B when a runner like Anderson is so overwhelmingly likely to take that base by himself? The time to bunt (and even this is debatable) is after the runner steals 2B, to set up a fairly high-percentage situation with the chance to plate a runner on 3B without even needing a hit.

I agree with you that there is hidden value on the basepaths that this team is not extracting.
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  #40  
Old 02-25-2018, 06:01 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Other than a true base-stealing savant along the lines of a Billy Hamilton, I don’t see Renteria allowing anyone on the team to make 30 stolen-base attempts, let alone to steal 30 bases. I would love to see a change in this department, but I’m not holding my breath.

For reference, Tim Anderson only made 16 attempts last year, even though only 1 attempt ended in failure. That is so far above the hypothetical “break-even point” of ~75% that I consider the lack of attempts to be a strategic mistake. I remember yelling at the TV set on several occasions when Renteria would opt for a sacrifice bunt instead of a straight steal with a speedy guy on 1B and nobody out. Why willingly give away an out just to advance the runner to 2B when a runner like Anderson is so overwhelmingly likely to take that base by himself? The time to bunt (and even this is debatable) is after the runner steals 2B, to set up a fairly high-percentage situation with the chance to plate a runner on 3B without even needing a hit.

I agree with you that there is hidden value on the basepaths that this team is not extracting.
I think part of it might be that a guy like Anderson struggled to get on base enough to warrant a lot of stolen base attempts. I think the last thing the Sox would want is a guy who is struggling to get on base to get thrown out on a steal attempt and Anderson did start running more in September as he got hotter.

Out of the primary stolen base threats in 2017 (Anderson, Engle, Leury Garcia and Moncada) only Moncada had an OBP above .330 and even that was in only 231 plate appearances. If Moncada and Anderson get off to good starts, I'd like to see them run a bit more, but other than that, I'm hard pressed to think of someone on the current roster who I think could steal a lot of bases and warrants a lot of attempts.
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  #41  
Old 02-25-2018, 11:17 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187
I think part of it might be that a guy like Anderson struggled to get on base enough to warrant a lot of stolen base attempts. I think the last thing the Sox would want is a guy who is struggling to get on base to get thrown out on a steal attempt and Anderson did start running more in September as he got hotter.

Out of the primary stolen base threats in 2017 (Anderson, Engle, Leury Garcia and Moncada) only Moncada had an OBP above .330 and even that was in only 231 plate appearances. If Moncada and Anderson get off to good starts, I'd like to see them run a bit more, but other than that, I'm hard pressed to think of someone on the current roster who I think could steal a lot of bases and warrants a lot of attempts.
I can understand the theory that low OBP teams may be better off playing station-to-station and not risking erasure of the few baserunners they get. However, for teams that lack OBP and power, I would like to see them force the issue instead of waiting for a big hit that is unlikely to come.
  #42  
Old 02-26-2018, 03:57 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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I can understand the theory that low OBP teams may be better off playing station-to-station and not risking erasure of the few baserunners they get. However, for teams that lack OBP and power, I would like to see them force the issue instead of waiting for a big hit that is unlikely to come.
+1

You have a faster team; get an instructor in to teach them how to steal a base.

Then, steal a base when the opportunity presents itself.
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  #43  
Old 02-26-2018, 08:09 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I think part of it might be that a guy like Anderson struggled to get on base enough to warrant a lot of stolen base attempts. I think the last thing the Sox would want is a guy who is struggling to get on base to get thrown out on a steal attempt and Anderson did start running more in September as he got hotter.

Out of the primary stolen base threats in 2017 (Anderson, Engle, Leury Garcia and Moncada) only Moncada had an OBP above .330 and even that was in only 231 plate appearances. If Moncada and Anderson get off to good starts, I'd like to see them run a bit more, but other than that, I'm hard pressed to think of someone on the current roster who I think could steal a lot of bases and warrants a lot of attempts.
Anderson was on the White Sox Talk Podcast recently and he basically turned down the idea of becoming a more patient hitter. He's an aggressive hitter who probably won't take too many walks, so the only way for him to have a decent OBP is to hit for a higher average like Avi did last season. You could hear in Chuck Garfien's voice that he wanted to press Tim a little bit about the issue but decided not to.

So if Anderson struggles with hitting this season, he doesn't get on base as he doesn't walk. Simple as that.
  #44  
Old 02-26-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Given the recent past of failure after failure in the free agent market that drove the Sox to change direction I can't understand why a guy like Moustakas would even be in the conversation. I mean after repeatedly banging your head against the wall you should remember how much it hurts.
Oftentimes, these "conversations" are started by the agents trying to generate some heat for the client. Makes the client look more desirable if there is an impression that more than one team is interested. The rules don't allow teams to discuss negotiations they might be having before a player is signed. Borass took full advantage of this rule for A Rod with the Rangers. Borass said someone else had a better offer on the table than the Rangers, so the Rangers upped their offer. Turns out, Borass was lying-there was no other competing offer out there at the dollar amount Borass claimed. He tricked the Rangers into negotiating against themselves.
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  #45  
Old 02-26-2018, 11:27 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
Anderson was on the White Sox Talk Podcast recently and he basically turned down the idea of becoming a more patient hitter. He's an aggressive hitter who probably won't take too many walks, so the only way for him to have a decent OBP is to hit for a higher average like Avi did last season. You could hear in Chuck Garfien's voice that he wanted to press Tim a little bit about the issue but decided not to.

So if Anderson struggles with hitting this season, he doesn't get on base as he doesn't walk. Simple as that.
While Anderson will never be a high on base guy, I hope he realizes that you can still be aggressive and take walks. He has the worst K/BB ratio in the game, and needs to focus on pitch recognition to bring it to a respectable level. He should be aggressive with pitches in the zone he is looking for, but have a better 2 strike approach than his current one.
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