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  #91  
Old 09-11-2019, 11:08 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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In 2018, Palka was in the 42nd percentile for sprint speed, and Delmonico was in the 55th.

In 2019, Eloy is in the 69th percentile, and Castellanos is in the 73rd.

All 4 guys are big bodied individuals, and speed is an extremely good indicator of athletic ability for that body type.

So again, very different athletes we are talking about here.
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  #92  
Old 09-11-2019, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Collins has proven nothing at the MLB level, and Mercedes has zero ABs at the level and is 26. Not a combo you put together for a position that's only output is supposed to be offense.
Well I expect them both to get substantial playing time. I still think the Sox go with DH by committee unless they can lad someone cheap to help out. Other positions need more attention so it doesn't make a lot of sense to sock a lot of money into DH.
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  #93  
Old 09-11-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Sure. And itís more likely they donít.
The vast majority of Anderson's errors are focus and arm slot related. Both of those are fixable and TA seems to have the desire to get better at all aspects of the game, so I'd be shocked if some of his issues don't mitigate with time.

In 2016 and 2018 he posted a 1.0+ DWAR and between 2016 and 2019 he leads all SS ifor out of zone plays.

It would be a knee jerk reaction to move him from the position and to assume Tim won't go back to last year's form or that the errors are the only metric to judge him on is simply poor logic.
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  #94  
Old 09-11-2019, 11:56 AM
BRDSR BRDSR is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
There have to be good young players worth that first for that to be even possible. This offseason likely only Cole and Rendon will be nine figure deals. Next year only Betts will go that high, if he even becomes a FA. So this FO isn't going for it if they don't land at least of of these guys? A lot has to go right to land a big FA player, and that goes for any team. If Cole gets offered $250 mil for 8 years, is that the FO's fault for not getting him? If Rendon gets a similar deal to Arenado, is that their fault? If Betts signs a mega deal elsewhere, we can blame Jerry again?
.
I donít think we want Rendon unless he comes cheap for some reason. Moncada/Anderson/Madrigal mean we donít need to overspend on an infielder.

The same is not true of starting pitching. I will be downright upset if the Sox donít land Cole for whatever it takes. Frontload it if possible so that it lessens the impact on the payroll in the 2023-2025 timeframe. 2020 is the year for the Sox to start building a playoff contending team, and maybe finish building a World Series contending team for the 2022-2024 time frame. They have the payroll flexibility. If they donít make one major free agent move this offseason and one next, then the organization is not committed to this rebuild. Plain and simple. And Cole is the only major free agent that makes sense this offseason, with Bumgarner a potentially acceptable consolation prize.

If the Sox get neither...I stop buying the platitudes of the front office. And I think Iíve been patient and supportive thusfar.
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  #95  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Sure. And itís more likely they donít.
This is based off what now?
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  #96  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:05 PM
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As for Collins, he has a total of 51 PA's so far in his major league career. Give him some time. Unlike Palka, he doesn't look completely lost at the plate and he's also taking walks at a decent clip since he came back from AAA. His OPS was .418 for his first stint and in his second stint it's up to .654. Still not great, but the improvement shows. Defense can be worked on.
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  #97  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:26 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by BRDSR View Post
I don’t think we want Rendon unless he comes cheap for some reason. Moncada/Anderson/Madrigal mean we don’t need to overspend on an infielder.

The same is not true of starting pitching. I will be downright upset if the Sox don’t land Cole for whatever it takes. Frontload it if possible so that it lessens the impact on the payroll in the 2023-2025 timeframe. 2020 is the year for the Sox to start building a playoff contending team, and maybe finish building a World Series contending team for the 2022-2024 time frame. They have the payroll flexibility. If they don’t make one major free agent move this offseason and one next, then the organization is not committed to this rebuild. Plain and simple. And Cole is the only major free agent that makes sense this offseason, with Bumgarner a potentially acceptable consolation prize.

If the Sox get neither...I stop buying the platitudes of the front office. And I think I’ve been patient and supportive thusfar.
The thing about FA is that the player has to want to sign somewhere too, for all we know Cole might only be considering the NYY and LAA. Signing a pitcher for whatever it takes has a lot of risks involved, especially one that will be 30+ for the vast majority of the contract. I'll be upset if he signs somewhere for only 6 years and has given the Sox at least the time of day during negotiations.

Bumgarner would fit nicely on the Sox, but also he might not have any plans of leaving SF, or wants to be closer to home and go to ATL.

At the end of the day, Odorizzi might be someone the Sox should seriously consider as a legit fallback plan. He's had 5 solid seasons and one "meh" season, all in the AL too. He's pitched very well this season also with the most K's ever for him, even with the juiced balls and a half run more scored across the game. He will likely have the same impact as a Bumgarner would in a 4ish year deal. Though, Bumgarner does have a tremendous postseason history and has pitched more innings than him.

Trade candidates to target? Not many actually that would be even available. Syndergaard stands out as a better option than Odorizzi, but has only 2 years of control and would cost a lot to acquire. There just aren't SP that will be available via trade, outside of giving up Robert in a deal for Luis Castillo or someone.
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  #98  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:58 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
As for Collins, he has a total of 51 PA's so far in his major league career. Give him some time. Unlike Palka, he doesn't look completely lost at the plate and he's also taking walks at a decent clip since he came back from AAA. His OPS was .418 for his first stint and in his second stint it's up to .654. Still not great, but the improvement shows. Defense can be worked on.
He's played in 5 games since coming back up and has 8 K's and 2 hits, and yes 5 walks. I would love for him to succeed too, but this is not improvement. It's all a very small sample size, but he doesn't look like he belongs yet from the numbers and the eye test. I'm just not sure that the Sox will be in a position to offer him the ABs he needs at the MLB level next year for him to mature and get a really gage on who he really is. They should give him as many ABs the remainder of the year and then have him start in AAA next year.

Yeah, the D needs work too. AAA seems like the place for that.
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  #99  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:07 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
He's played in 5 games since coming back up and has 8 K's and 2 hits, and yes 5 walks. I would love for him to succeed too, but this is not improvement. It's all a very small sample size, but he doesn't look like he belongs yet from the numbers and the eye test. I'm just not sure that the Sox will be in a position to offer him the ABs he needs at the MLB level next year for him to mature and get a really gage on who he really is. They should give him as many ABs the remainder of the year and then have him start in AAA next year.

Yeah, the D needs work too. AAA seems like the place for that.
What does Collins have left to prove at AAA? We know he can hit AAA pitching. The Sox need to find out if he can hit MLB pitching. Only MLB at-bats will let the Sox find that out.
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  #100  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:22 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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What does Collins have left to prove at AAA? We know he can hit AAA pitching. The Sox need to find out if he can hit MLB pitching. Only MLB at-bats will let the Sox find that out.
I mean, we know he hit AAA pitching with juiced balls this year. He really wasn't that good in previous seasons in the minors.

The Astros called up Kyle Tucker last year and he sucked, so they sent him back to AAA the following year, and same with the Padres and Luis Urias last year. And those are FAR more talented players.

There should not be ABs for players next year, not named Luis Robert, Nick Madrigal or Eloy Jimenez, that are for young players to figure out MLB pitching. He can come up if there is an injury and or if he's hitting well again in AAA and there's a spot. Next year's team should not be punting ABs anymore, the team should be good enough to compete for a WC spot or the division.
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  #101  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:05 PM
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The balls are juiced in both AAA and the majors. They are the same. He can hit AAA and needs to develop in the MLB now. Yes he's started off slow but let's not pretend he's absolute crap. Collins has potential.
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  #102  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:54 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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This is based off what now?
Their ages and contract status.
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  #103  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:57 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
In 2018, Palka was in the 42nd percentile for sprint speed, and Delmonico was in the 55th.

In 2019, Eloy is in the 69th percentile, and Castellanos is in the 73rd.

All 4 guys are big bodied individuals, and speed is an extremely good indicator of athletic ability for that body type.

So again, very different athletes we are talking about here.
Eloy's sprint speed doesn't help his throwing arm, which I think is biggest flaw. And I confess, I don't know anything about Castellanos' arm.
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  #104  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:26 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
The Sox don't have many trade assets other than the guys they are relying on for their "core".

I very much disagree on the $50-$90 guys. If you're talking about a 2-year, $50 million contract, you're going to get a very good player. Similarly for a 3-year, $90-million contract. This team needs $25-$30-million per year players, and they don't all need to be signed to super long-term deals.
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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
The Sox don't have many trade assets other than the guys they are relying on for their "core".

I very much disagree on the $50-$90 guys. If you're talking about a 2-year, $50 million contract, you're going to get a very good player. Similarly for a 3-year, $90-million contract. This team needs $25-$30-million per year players, and they don't all need to be signed to super long-term deals.
I totally agree about AAV, but there is an obstacle. Guys taking those Verander/Kershaw deals are taking them with teams that already are proven contenders, not teams looking to become proven contenders. We probably would have to add an extra year or two to a 3-year deal like Kershawís.

Practically all of those elite pitchers are getting paid through age-34, with some getting their age-35 season secured as well. Other guys are agreeing to club options for that age-35 season, which secures them at least the buyout amount that year.

If the White Sox want to use that goofy option-heavy approach that they used with Machado, they need to use it as a tie-breaker, not as a substitute for guaranteed money. Guaranteeing a guy like Bumgarner 4/$120 for 2020-2023 with club/vesting options at $20 and $5 buyouts for 2024-2026 may get him to come here, because I donít see anybody going to 5 years and guaranteeing that 2024 season when MadBum turns 35. However, if someone does, then the Sox need to match it.

2020: $30
2021: $30
2022: $25
2023: $20

2024: $20 ($5 deferred) or $5 buyout
2025: $20 ($5 deferred) or $5 buyout
2026: $20 ($5 deferred) or $5 buyout

2027: $5 if 2024 option is exercised
2028: $5 if 2025 option is exercised
2029: $5 if 2026 option is exercised

All 3 buyouts are guaranteed, bringing the total to 4/$120 at a minimum, and he will see every penny within 7 years. The 2024 option vests with either 100+ games started over the life of the deal or 25+ games started in 2023. The 2025 option vests as well if both criteria are met, or with 25+ games started in 2024. The 2026 option vests with 25+ games started in 2025. Even if the options donít vest, $5 deferred on each option makes them more attractive for the team to exercise, which increases the chances of the player actually seeing the money.

All told, if Bumgarner stays durable, he could walk away with 7/$165. Even if that doesnít happen, he is guaranteeing himself a $30 AAV and some level of MLB salary through age-37. Thatís how you seal the deal. Money talks, bull**** walks.
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  #105  
Old 09-11-2019, 05:30 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Eloy's sprint speed doesn't help his throwing arm, which I think is biggest flaw. And I confess, I don't know anything about Castellanos' arm.
Eloy has a 50 grade arm, which is very normal for left field.

Saying that Eloy's arm in left field is his biggest flaw is a far cry from your previous assessments of him needing to be a DH immediately. He is way more athletic than people give him credit for. There is no arguing that he has gotten better as the season has gone on.

Castellanos played 3b for a while and now RF, 2 positions that typically require an arm on the stronger side. It plays fine there.
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