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  #16  
Old 04-18-2018, 08:50 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
I guess time and patience we need more of. 2019 could be another rough year with all these delays. That's the part I wasn't ready for.
I get it. Iím hungry for some winning baseball, too. And the Sox are hyping hope.

The other big successful tear-down rebuilds - the Cubs and Astros - were driven by good drafts. We could stand to benefit from a few more high draft picks to keep the system replenished as top prospects matriculate to Chicago. Top 5 picks in 2018 and 2019 could go a long way toward providing an additional wave of talent to hit around 2022-2023 that could extend the window of contention.

In other words, I can stomach a lousy 2018 and 2019 if it means the Sox are competitive through the 2020s.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2018, 09:11 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Adding to the angst for me is the development being missed by so many guys at this point.

I feel hopeless every passing day Robert and Burger don't participate. CF and 3B are such glaring black holes and those possible future pieces are on the shelf. One long term the other short term. Nonetheless, it's missed time. There's so much value to that.


Eloy not being on the field yet also delays his arrival IMO.

Hansen and Rodon two possible key peices to this future rotation still haven't thrown a pitch.

Burdi possible futur closer still on TJ recovery.

Collins just flat out sucking.

I can guarantee if we had all of the above healthy and performing right now and providing hope, this Clown College act by the current ML squad would be less magnified. At least to me.

I guess time and patience we need more of. 2019 could be another rough year with all these delays. That's the part I wasn't ready for.
How could you not be ready? I am really starting to wonder what some of you were expecting when the Sox decided to go this path in the fall/winter of 2016. It's almost like everyone expected them to suck last year but then suddenly this year they were supposed to be a .500 club and next year contend. That's a ridiculous expectation and one that does not even align with anything the GM has been saying the last 1.5 years. This organization was in a black hole which is why the reset button was pushed. Unfortunately, this means it's going to take time to let prospects develop and find their role and come together as a team. It's not something that happens in 2 years. This isn't the NFL.
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  #18  
Old 04-18-2018, 09:14 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
At what point do you start wondering about the hitting coach and his philosophy?
When the roster is full of players who can hit and produce offensively. So, not this year.
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  #19  
Old 04-18-2018, 09:27 AM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
How could you not be ready? I am really starting to wonder what some of you were expecting when the Sox decided to go this path in the fall/winter of 2016. It's almost like everyone expected them to suck last year but then suddenly this year they were supposed to be a .500 club and next year contend. That's a ridiculous expectation and one that does not even align with anything the GM has been saying the last 1.5 years. This organization was in a black hole which is why the reset button was pushed. Unfortunately, this means it's going to take time to let prospects develop and find their role and come together as a team. It's not something that happens in 2 years. This isn't the NFL.
Many experts saw this is as a quick turnaround. So it's not just fans being delusional. 2019 was the year some experts expected this team to make noise as possible WC contender with the possibility of FA help.
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  #20  
Old 04-18-2018, 09:48 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Many experts saw this is as a quick turnaround. So it's not just fans being delusional. 2019 was the year some experts expected this team to make noise as possible WC contender with the possibility of FA help.
Experts. By now we should all be weary about experts making predictions for the White Sox. And again, all that has been said is "possibly". Not guaranteed. Not set in stone. Possibly.

And who knows, maybe it's still a possibility. After all, anything is possible. But the more likely scenario is 2020 things start to come together and then this team goes on a run for a few years.

Also, any expert who thought this was a quick turnaround seriously failed to recognize the complete horse**** that was the Sox minor league system.

Last edited by voodoochile; 04-18-2018 at 10:19 AM.
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  #21  
Old 04-18-2018, 09:52 AM
TomParrish79 TomParrish79 is offline
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Made a joke last night that this team could lose 130 games...

Then I remembered what Hawk always says.
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  #22  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:17 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo
How could you not be ready? I am really starting to wonder what some of you were expecting when the Sox decided to go this path in the fall/winter of 2016. It's almost like everyone expected them to suck last year but then suddenly this year they were supposed to be a .500 club and next year contend. That's a ridiculous expectation and one that does not even align with anything the GM has been saying the last 1.5 years. This organization was in a black hole which is why the reset button was pushed. Unfortunately, this means it's going to take time to let prospects develop and find their role and come together as a team. It's not something that happens in 2 years. This isn't the NFL.
Thank you, Kobo. This is a great post, and I hope everyone gets a chance to see it.

It does seem like some posters are angry with the losing because they believe that the team has executed this rebuild under false pretenses.

Some believe that the team somehow implied that 2017 was going to be the only “tanking year” in this process. I don’t know where that idea came from, but I do know that the team and the media did nothing to express this point. In fact, the vast majority of media outlets picked this team to be just about as bad as they were last year, possibly even worse from a W-L standpoint.

Others have even suggested that this whole process is nothing more than a cash grab by ownership. This is another position that is not backed up by any evidence whatsoever. Actually, I believe the opposite is true. I believe that there was a great deal of uncertainty, and even some consternation, within the organization about the rebuild because of the contracts signed by Sale, Quintana, and Eaton. Granted, all I have to go on is speculation, but it was reported that Reinsdorf himself was hesitant to trade Jose Quintana, which would blow the whole “slash, scrap, and pocket the profits” theory out of the water.

I understand that people are sick of losing, but they can’t let the losing bother them when it is planned by the organization itself. We all knew that this would be the fallout from trading away most of the core of a team that couldn’t even compete for a playoff spot anyway.
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  #23  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:23 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
I always looked at 2019 as another rebuilding year.

By my count, only 5 of the 25 guys on the roster are highly-regarded prospects who are expected to play a part in this rebuild. There is still significant roster turnover scheduled for the future.

Honestly, this team may not be ready by 2020, either. These guys are going to have some growing pains in the majors.
A reasoned and tempered view. And I agree with it. It's why we shouldn't be fretting about the performances of the Davdisons, Delmonicos, and L. Garcias of the world who will not be here in a few years when this team starts an upward trajectory. These guys are roster filler at worst, and lottery ticket fliers at best.
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  #24  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:25 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
How could you not be ready? I am really starting to wonder what some of you were expecting when the Sox decided to go this path in the fall/winter of 2016. It's almost like everyone expected them to suck last year but then suddenly this year they were supposed to be a .500 club and next year contend. That's a ridiculous expectation and one that does not even align with anything the GM has been saying the last 1.5 years.
It was obvious there were a good number of people here who, despite "accepting" the rebuild, didn't accept what it really entails, which is what you describe. Plenty of people preseason saying the team could content *this* year, and certainly next year. I mean, some of that can be just the irrational hopes of spring and the return of baseball, but a lot of it wasn't.
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  #25  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:25 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
Experts. By now we should all be weary about experts making predictions for the White Sox. And again, all that has been said is "possibly". Not guaranteed. Not set in stone. Possibly.

And who knows, maybe it's still a possibility. After all, anything is possible. But the more likely scenario is 2020 things start to come together and then this team goes on a run for a few years.

Also, any expert who thought this was a quick turnaround seriously failed to recognize the complete horsehsit that was the Sox minor league system.
Agreed! What experts?

Maybe by "experts" one is referring to columnists whose job it is to get clicks?

But I haven't read any serious analyst of baseball player development who thought waves of prospects would be coming to Chicago this year, other than Kopech and Eloy.

Not that every prospect will make it, but here are some best guesses at arrival timelines if they do make it to Chicago. And once a prospect arrives in the majors, he still needs another 1-2 seasons really to establish himself against MLB competition and be counted on as a major league contributor.

2017: Moncada, Giolito, Lopez
2018: Kopech, Eloy
2019: Hansen, Adams, Stephens, Burdi, Hamilton, Clarkin
2020: Collins, Zavala, Dunning, Cease, Robert, Adolfo, Sheets, Basabe,
2021: Burger (delayed due to seriousness of injury), Rutherford, Gonzalez, Curbelo
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  #26  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:29 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Agreed! What experts?

Maybe by "experts" one is referring to columnists whose job it is to get clicks?

But I haven't read any serious analyst of baseball player development who thought waves of prospects would be coming to Chicago this year, other than Kopech and Eloy.
Bingo. Projections all over (and I mean projection systems) had the Sox winning somewhere from the mid 60s-low 70s in games in 2018. Sure, someone can point to some outlier guy who just says "Chicago, second wild card this year," but yeah, the opinion of "some columnist" ain't cutting it for me.

Edit: I am loving this thread; nice to see the rational folks emerging after a few weeks of crazy talk around here.
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  #27  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:50 AM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post

Also, any expert who thought this was a quick turnaround seriously failed to recognize the complete horse**** that was the Sox minor league system.
It was based on the amount of near ML ready talent they got on all these trades along with the possibility of 2019 Free Agency.

I didn't see that being a stretch at all for 2019.

A core of:
Abreu
Garcia
Moncada
Eloy
Anderson
Collins (before sucking)

Rodon (before hurt)
Giolito
Lopez
Fulmer
Kopech
Burdi (before hurt)
Jones

To go along with FA help.
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  #28  
Old 04-18-2018, 11:13 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Thank you, Kobo. This is a great post, and I hope everyone gets a chance to see it.

It does seem like some posters are angry with the losing because they believe that the team has executed this rebuild under false pretenses.

Some believe that the team somehow implied that 2017 was going to be the only “tanking year” in this process. I don’t know where that idea came from, but I do know that the team and the media did nothing to express this point. In fact, the vast majority of media outlets picked this team to be just about as bad as they were last year, possibly even worse from a W-L standpoint.

Others have even suggested that this whole process is nothing more than a cash grab by ownership. This is another position that is not backed up by any evidence whatsoever. Actually, I believe the opposite is true. I believe that there was a great deal of uncertainty, and even some consternation, within the organization about the rebuild because of the contracts signed by Sale, Quintana, and Eaton. Granted, all I have to go on is speculation, but it was reported that Reinsdorf himself was hesitant to trade Jose Quintana, which would blow the whole “slash, scrap, and pocket the profits” theory out of the water.

I understand that people are sick of losing, but they can’t let the losing bother them when it is planned by the organization itself. We all knew that this would be the fallout from trading away most of the core of a team that couldn’t even compete for a playoff spot anyway.
Pretty good post. What is bothering me a lot is how completely unfocused, how many baseball-stupid plays are being made by a lot of guys, including a guy like Anderson who is supposed to be a big part of the rebuild moving forward. Sanchez is another one.

I get it, they are going to lose a lot but at least play the game well and use that to gain experience moving forward.

I can only hope that at least the guys in the minor leagues, the guys this entire rebuild hinges on, are learning the nuances of the game and the little things that often mean the difference between winning and losing.

I don't know enough about the minor leagues staffs to say one way or the other if this is happening.

Last edited by Lip Man 1; 04-18-2018 at 01:34 PM.
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  #29  
Old 04-18-2018, 01:22 PM
northsidesoxfan northsidesoxfan is offline
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Default Throwback Uniforms rock

Real good Uniforms on both teams.Nice hats for the Athletics especially the white ones the coaches for Oakland wore.The Sox blue top might look even better with grey pants; not the current one but a custom made one.Also Steve Stone mentioned the road uniforms from 1973 with the red in them with as his favorite.
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  #30  
Old 04-18-2018, 01:24 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Many experts saw this is as a quick turnaround. So it's not just fans being delusional. 2019 was the year some experts expected this team to make noise as possible WC contender with the possibility of FA help.
That first week, there was more than one article written about how the Sox would be among the more exciting teams to watch among non-contenders.

I reserve the right to punch the next person who writes anything like that. There is nothing fun about rebuilding.

It's a long slog with a lot of bad, boring baseball, featuring a lot of bad players. (Leury Garcia is still here. ) This will not be an exciting season.

It's important to note that losing baseball is not necessarily unwatchable baseball. The 2017 Sox were terrible, but they were quite watchable at times. September was not bad at all. They surprised me with stretches of inspired play, in fact. (They also were unwatchable at times -- they had a horrible stretch right after the All-Star break last year.)

Through the first 14 games, the 2018 Sox have been completely unwatchable. It's an undisciplined, unfocused, sloppy team that is embarrassing itself against lightly regarded opponents such as Detroit, Tampa Bay and Oakland.

If this happened in July, it might go mostly unnoticed. But since it is happening at the start of the year, when people are still engaged in the day-to-day outcomes because it's the beginning of a new season, the frustration and the disgust are perhaps more at the forefront.

This won't be the last time they lose 10 out of 12 this season, but because it's happening now, that 4-10 mark looks terrible in the standings, and it's deflating for many fans who were excited about the new season, regardless of what expectations were coming in.

Personally, I've heard plenty of rebuild proponents tell me that 2019 and 2020 are going to be good years for the Sox. Frankly, I think the team will suck next season, too, and I'm hoping we'll start to see the clouds part two years from now. To me, the best-case scenario is contention in 2021. There's been a lot of talk about the timeline being quicker than that. I don't see it, unless they want to accelerate things with a major free-agent acquisition or two next offseason, but I don't think that's going to happen.

I'll say this for the organization -- they have not put a timeline on a return to contention, and that's good sense on their part.
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