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  #31  
Old 09-14-2017, 07:26 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Which is why, out of the current crop of prospects, I like Moncada for the lead-off spot. The kid has great speed and will steal a ton of bases. But the real kicker is that he is currently hitting .229 but has a .353 OBP. Imagine if he was hitting near .300 as expected! That OBP would be over .400. Combine that with his speed and I think you have a very fine lead-off hitter. If he happens to hit 20-25 HR's that's just gravy.
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  #32  
Old 09-14-2017, 07:51 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew C White
Which is why, out of the current crop of prospects, I like Moncada for the lead-off spot. The kid has great speed and will steal a ton of bases. But the real kicker is that he is currently hitting .229 but has a .353 OBP. Imagine if he was hitting near .300 as expected! That OBP would be over .400. Combine that with his speed and I think you have a very fine lead-off hitter. If he happens to hit 20-25 HR's that's just gravy.
The real drawback is that whoever leads off is guaranteed 150+ at-bats with no one on base. A lot of the Markov chain analysis that guides SABR decision-making suggests that the best hitter on the team is better suited to the 2nd spot. Either Robert's or Moncada's power does go to waste a little bit in the leadoff spot, so whoever is wasting less power in that spot should lead off. Right now, I would anticipate Moncada hitting more home runs and posting a higher slugging percentage than Robert, but that is pure speculation on my part.
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  #33  
Old 09-14-2017, 08:18 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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I think the leadoff spot has Luis Robert's name written all over it.
Why?
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  #34  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:04 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
The real drawback is that whoever leads off is guaranteed 150+ at-bats with no one on base. A lot of the Markov chain analysis that guides SABR decision-making suggests that the best hitter on the team is better suited to the 2nd spot. Either Robert's or Moncada's power does go to waste a little bit in the leadoff spot, so whoever is wasting less power in that spot should lead off. Right now, I would anticipate Moncada hitting more home runs and posting a higher slugging percentage than Robert, but that is pure speculation on my part.
Interesting. Obviously none of us have seen enough of Robert to really know for sure but my take on the prospect reports is that between he and Yoan it is Robert that has the greater power tool and Moncada with the better hit tool.

That said, I still think, for the reasons you stated above, that the Sox will acquire some sort of more natural lead-off hitter so that they can bat Moncada and Robert lower in the order. Imagine a lineup with a true lead-off hitter followed by Moncada, Robert, and Jiminez... or Robert, Moncada, and Jiminez... or Moncada, Jiminez, and Robert.

Oh yeah, and a veteran like Abreu following them along with guys like Burger and Sheets and Collins and Anderson, etc. I don't think this team will lack for power even if they end up batting Moncada and Robert at the top of the order in whatever order.
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  #35  
Old 09-14-2017, 11:33 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Why? Strikeouts don't matter.
Walks and strikeouts are two different things. You can have both.
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  #36  
Old 09-14-2017, 11:35 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Why?
He said why.
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  #37  
Old 09-15-2017, 09:10 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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He said why.
He projects better as an RBI guy.
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  #38  
Old 09-15-2017, 10:07 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
He projects better as an RBI guy.
I agree. As fast as Robert is, he is supposed to bring power as his primary tool.
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  #39  
Old 09-16-2017, 01:32 AM
Falstaff Falstaff is offline
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All I can say is it would be stupid to trade Avi at this point. Abreu too, tho partially for sentimental reasons.
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  #40  
Old 09-16-2017, 04:41 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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All I can say is it would be stupid to trade Avi at this point. Abreu too, tho partially for sentimental reasons.
Thee is no offer on the table so how can you dismiss a possible trade concerning Avi?

If Avi is not a mentor and if it is to believed that Jose Abreu is a mentor to younger players, especially Moncada and Robert, then Abreu's utility rates higher than Avi Garcia's.

Abreu has to get better on defense b/c in the not too distant future, if Abreu remains part of this team, his days at first base are numbered.

(Based on what I know about Jose Abreu an Alexi Ramirez, and that very little, they seem like good guys. Having them in the organization would be a great way to open up channels to Cuba. The could be roving instructors and help younger players adapt too life in a new city.)
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  #41  
Old 09-16-2017, 10:25 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Falstaff View Post
All I can say is it would be stupid to trade Avi at this point. Abreu too, tho partially for sentimental reasons.
I'm with you- I would like to see Avi on maybe a 3 year deal with a 4th year as a club option, that 4th year will be decided based on his performance combined with the progress of Rutherford and other outfield prospects at A/A+ level currently- other than Jiminez, no other premium outfield prospects at AA/AAA right now.

He may not be a clubhouse leader/mentor- but he is a tremendous role model on playing the game the "right way"- busts his ass on every play, plays through injuries,etc.

If we retain Abreu and Avi- we'll have two guys age 29 (Avi) and 33 (Abreu) in 2020 to mix in with all of the young prospects that will make up the rest of the roster. Its the same mindset of going out and acquiring a veteran or 2 to mix in with young players when you want to contend coming out of a rebuild.

I think we are going to be good sooner than expected- possibly start contending in 2019, I don't want to flip more veterans for prospects and extend that timing out- and I don't think you can contend with a roster 100% made of your prospects developing, you need a few veterans in the mix.
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  #42  
Old 09-16-2017, 10:41 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I'm with you- I would like to see Avi on maybe a 3 year deal with a 4th year as a club option, that 4th year will be decided based on his performance combined with the progress of Rutherford and other outfield prospects at A/A+ level currently- other than Jiminez, no other premium outfield prospects at AA/AAA right now.

He may not be a clubhouse leader/mentor- but he is a tremendous role model on playing the game the "right way"- busts his ass on every play, plays through injuries,etc.

If we retain Abreu and Avi- we'll have two guys age 29 (Avi) and 33 (Abreu) in 2020 to mix in with all of the young prospects that will make up the rest of the roster. Its the same mindset of going out and acquiring a veteran or 2 to mix in with young players when you want to contend coming out of a rebuild.

I think we are going to be good sooner than expected- possibly start contending in 2019, I don't want to flip more veterans for prospects and extend that timing out- and I don't think you can contend with a roster 100% made of your prospects developing, you need a few veterans in the mix.
I mentioned this is another thread, but I will repeat it here: if Hahn gets blown away with an offer for either Garcia or Abreu, he should take it. Otherwise, they should both be here for 2018.

I'm still not sold on an extension for Avi because I'm not 100 percent sure this year isn't a fluke. Even if Avi DOES have another solid 2018, I think he has to move over to left to make room for Jimenez at some point next season and I'm not sure if Robert is a true center fielder if he is scheduled to come up in 2020 (he might be, I'm just not sure).

As for Abreu, I think the biggest thing against him is time. He's 30 now and most guys are on the downside of their careers at age 32, when he'll be arbitration eligible. I HOPE he gets to be on the next great Sox team, but I wouldn't count on it either. I wouldn't completely rule out extending him, but I don't think that's something that would be high on my list of things to do this off-season either.
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  #43  
Old 09-16-2017, 01:46 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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All I can say is it would be stupid to trade Avi at this point.
What a compelling argument.
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  #44  
Old 09-16-2017, 07:12 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I'm with you- I would like to see Avi on maybe a 3 year deal with a 4th year as a club option, that 4th year will be decided based on his performance combined with the progress of Rutherford and other outfield prospects at A/A+ level currently- other than Jiminez, no other premium outfield prospects at AA/AAA right now.

He may not be a clubhouse leader/mentor- but he is a tremendous role model on playing the game the "right way"- busts his ass on every play, plays through injuries,etc.

If we retain Abreu and Avi- we'll have two guys age 29 (Avi) and 33 (Abreu) in 2020 to mix in with all of the young prospects that will make up the rest of the roster. Its the same mindset of going out and acquiring a veteran or 2 to mix in with young players when you want to contend coming out of a rebuild.

I think we are going to be good sooner than expected- possibly start contending in 2019, I don't want to flip more veterans for prospects and extend that timing out- and I don't think you can contend with a roster 100% made of your prospects developing, you need a few veterans in the mix.
No way Avi gets a guaranteed three years based on one good year.
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