Viciedo vs. Hayward

[johnnyg83]

I was watching MLB TV yesterday and they were predicting MVPs and I think it was Eric Byrnes who picked Heyward to finish 3rd. Is the league still super high on this guy?

Or is this a case of the media refusing to let go of someone they hyped so hard? Don't get me wrong Heyward's a nice ballplayer but MVP?

He seemed to me a better fielding range/more athletic version of Tank.

Their splits last year:

Heyward: .269/27/82 in 651 PAs
Tank: .255/25/78 in 543 PAs

OPS is 70 points in favor of Heyward

[kittle42]

Originally Posted by johnnyg83

OPS is 70 points in favor of Heyward

And.....end of discussion.

[shes]

Hayward is much better than Dayan and all signs point to a huge breakout season from him, although if anyone from the Braves is an MVP candidate this year I believe it'll be Justin Upton.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by kittle42

And.....end of discussion.

Naw, they're like statistically the same. Didn't you see the RBI stats?

[RKMeibalane]

Originally Posted by blandman

Naw, they're like statistically the same. Didn't you see the RBI stats?

Munch, do you still work with UICJason?

[blandman]

Originally Posted by RKMeibalane

Munch, do you still work with UICJason?

Haha...I do.

[RKMeibalane]

Originally Posted by blandman

Haha...I do.

Does he miss this place?

[Tragg]

Originally Posted by johnnyg83

OPS is 70 points in favor of Heyward

That's a big gap.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by RKMeibalane

Does he miss this place?

I'm pretty sure he's a Cubs fan, so I'm gonna assume not. I don't see him too often (big campus), but I'll ask him next time I see him.

[johnnyg83]

I'm going to belabor this, mea culpa.

If you give Viciedo another 100 PAs to match heyward last year he's at .255/30/92 or so .... And PK and Dunn aren't stretching bases for runs in front of him.

But my point was more about Heyward being flavor of the month and now settling into good ball player-ville.

Not the next Willie Mays.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by johnnyg83

I'm going to belabor this, mea culpa.

If you give Viciedo another 100 PAs to match heyward last year he's at .255/30/92 or so .... And PK and Dunn aren't stretching bases for runs in front of him.

But my point was more about Heyward being flavor of the month and now settling into good ball player-ville.

Not the next Willie Mays.

And Viciedo still lags behind Heyward greatly in OPS. In the minors, Viciedo's career OPS was .780 and Heyward .900, and Heyward mostly was younger than Viciedo. There's really no comparison between the two of them. I don't remember anyone ever comparing Heyward to Willie Mays, nor calling him the flavor of the month, just one of the top prospects in baseball who is now a very good, young player. Last season at 23 Viciedo put up an OPS+ of 96, Heyward 116 at 22; career-wise, their OPS+ are 97 for Viciedo and 116 for Heyward (to say anything of WAR, where Heyward also dwarfs Viciedo). There's not much to compare between the two and all of the above is solely on the offensive side (besides WAR). Heyward is also the much better player defensively.

[johnnyg83]

Originally Posted by DSpivack

And Viciedo still lags behind Heyward greatly in OPS. In the minors, Viciedo's career OPS was .780 and Heyward .900, and Heyward mostly was younger than Viciedo. There's really no comparison between the two of them. I don't remember anyone ever comparing Heyward to Willie Mays, nor calling him the flavor of the month, just one of the top prospects in baseball who is now a very good, young player. Last season at 23 Viciedo put up an OPS+ of 96, Heyward 116 at 22; career-wise, their OPS+ are 97 for Viciedo and 116 for Heyward (to say anything of WAR, where Heyward also dwarfs Viciedo). There's not much to compare between the two and all of the above is solely on the offensive side (besides WAR). Heyward is also the much better player defensively.

His nickname is the "J-Hey Kid" so Willy Mays comparisons may not be fair but they're inevitable. And when he came up, he was hyped to the bejesus by Bristol. I think he homered in his first AB or game and they were doing break-ins in programming to see his ABs. I do not recall this for certain, so I'm willing to be proven incorrect. But if true, that, to me, is OVER-hyped.

And I acknowledged in my first post about the OPS difference, but the rest of the batting line is pretty damn similar. So don't tell me there's no comparison. There is. And not only is there a comparison, it's remarkably close! Outside of OPS and fielding -- both of which I tipped my hat to in the original post.

Again, for those not picking it up. My point is NOT that Viciedo and Heyward are the same player but that this dude who was so hyped, has turned in one good, and no great seasons and that -- at a GLANCE -- have some traditional batting line comparisons to Viciedo.

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I used to contribute money to this board and then I found the contributors too nasty to justify it, now I'm on the verge of abandoning it. I've been around since 2004 and the know-it-all-ness and smug baloney of this site sometimes reminds me of a North Side board. I think I'll say goodbye to all for a while.

Go Whitesox!

[CoopaLoop]

lol casual mention of 70 point difference in OPS like it was a minor footnote.

[TDog]

Originally Posted by CoopaLoop

lol casual mention of 70 point difference in OPS like it was a minor footnote.

If you're using it to argue what the two might do in the future, it might turn out to be a minor footnote.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by TDog

If you're using it to argue what the two might do in the future, it might turn out to be a minor footnote.

Uh, what? I'm as big a Dayan Viciedo homer as there is around here, but even I'm willing to admit Heyward at this point, every point prior, and likely every point in the future, is a far superior, all-around better player than Viciedo.