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  #61  
Old 06-15-2019, 06:01 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If they want to commit the catcher’s spot to McCann for the next few years, fine by me. If they want to keep Colomé, fine by me. I have no problem with the team starting to commit payroll dollars to answer some of these long-term questions.

I just don’t see it happening. Each guy is at peak value right now, and locking them in will take some serious cash.
I can see McCann joining Collins and Zavala to make up the 2020 catching corps- with Collins probably also taking the back up 1B and platoon DH role, also allows McCann to get some ABs at DH as well.

I believe McCann will be pretty good for the next few years if he stay healthy- he had pretty big peronal issue in 2018 (infant twins in the ICU), so I think that's part of the reason he had such a bad year last year....and we need a veteran to help the young pitchers.

Beyond that- you have to go all the way to Evan Skoug at WS to find anything approaching a prospect in the system, and I'm not really interested in going back to the FA catcher dumpster bin.
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  #62  
Old 06-15-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
I think his MLB sample size was much, much too short to draw any sort of definitive conclusions. Just the Sox recent history with catchers should tell us that patience is is a virtue; Tyler Flowers has developed into a pretty decent hitter as a catcher, as has Omar Narvaez.

I think Zavala can be acceptable in 2020 as the backup behind a McCann/Collins C/DH rotation, starting at catcher primarily against LHP.

If he can handle that in 2020, then I think he can be acceptable as the RH platoon partner to Collins entering 2021. In fact, check out his splits; he’s a much better hitter against LHP, whereas Collins - as should be expected - hits quite well against RHP but struggled against LHP.

Other than the obvious superstars, catchers generally take longer to develop because they:

1. Have more parts of their game to improve than any other pitcher or position player: hitting, fielding, AND working with pitchers;

2. Because of the demands of the position, they get more off days than most other starting position players, so they get fewer plate appearances over a season (unless they are such stud hitters that their team plays them a lot at DH, in which case they are getting fewer reps defensively).

Guess we'll see but his OBP at Charlotte is .289. His OPS of .778 is entirely dependent on his SLG. Not sure that will translate well enough, but I guess we'll find out. He has been hot for Charlotte, so maybe he's figuring something out. Couple weeks ago his OPS was well under .700.
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  #63  
Old 06-15-2019, 06:45 PM
central44 central44 is online now
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Here’s an interesting hypothetical: What if the Sox find themselves on July 30 with a record over .500, and squarely in the wild card race?

Do we become buyers?

If so, who in our minor league system should we be willing to trade in order to buy, say, a starting pitcher?

Who is untouchable?
In my opinion, the only thing that matters is putting the best team on the field that you possibly can in 2020. The Sox have main parts of the rebuild up and producing right now in a big way, and the AL is definitely down right now seeing as the Sox are pseudo-contenders this year without really trying to be. If they don’t have a better option than McCann, or Colome, ready for next year then I wouldn’t move them.

That said, I wouldn’t say they should be buyers, either. They should keep their prospects and make some intelligent free agent signings to augment their core—they definitely have the money to intelligently add a few key pieces in places of need.
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  #64  
Old 06-15-2019, 06:57 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Guess we'll see but his OBP at Charlotte is .289. His OPS of .778 is entirely dependent on his SLG. Not sure that will translate well enough, but I guess we'll find out. He has been hot for Charlotte, so maybe he's figuring something out. Couple weeks ago his OPS was well under .700.
Totally understand and agreed. If he’s the weak/RH side of a catching platoon, then I can accept good slugging against LHP.

Really, I’d be pleased if a Collins/Zavala tandem gives us average-ish (Collins) to decent (Zavala) defense, along with good slugging (both) and strong OBP (Collins) in the lineup.
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  #65  
Old 06-15-2019, 08:44 PM
BRDSR BRDSR is offline
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Originally Posted by central44 View Post
In my opinion, the only thing that matters is putting the best team on the field that you possibly can in 2020. The Sox have main parts of the rebuild up and producing right now in a big way, and the AL is definitely down right now seeing as the Sox are pseudo-contenders this year without really trying to be. If they don’t have a better option than McCann, or Colome, ready for next year then I wouldn’t move them.

That said, I wouldn’t say they should be buyers, either. They should keep their prospects and make some intelligent free agent signings to augment their core—they definitely have the money to intelligently add a few key pieces in places of need.
This is where I'm at, as well. Unless somebody comes along with an offer the Sox just can't refuse, I hope they stand pat at the deadline, re-sign Abreu, and put some money into free agents starting pitching (at least one major signing) over the winter. That team would be awfully competitive in 2020.
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  #66  
Old 06-16-2019, 09:14 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Trading Colme, who is having a career year and is controlled only through next season, is an opportunity to sell high.
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  #67  
Old 06-16-2019, 10:09 AM
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Trading Colme, who is having a career year and is controlled only through next season, is an opportunity to sell high.
Yes but it means we have to find a closer for next year when the team should be ready to make a run at the playoffs.
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  #68  
Old 06-16-2019, 10:33 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Trading Colme, who is having a career year and is controlled only through next season, is an opportunity to sell high.
I think the key question is whether u think 2020 should be a year we try to contend or is it another year of strictly rebuilding? I think we should try to contend and if we let Colome go it will be costly to replace him- either via trade or FA. I’m always open to a team overpaying- but other than that I’d be inclined to keep him
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  #69  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:38 AM
insp insp is offline
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Trading Colme, who is having a career year and is controlled only through next season, is an opportunity to sell high.
So you want the team to be in perpetual rebuilding mode and never stock up on the quality players needed to reach the playoffs.
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  #70  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:49 AM
blandman blandman is online now
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So you want the team to be in perpetual rebuilding mode and never stock up on the quality players needed to reach the playoffs.

Alex Colome will not be on the team the next time we're competing for a playoff spot. He's only under contract this year, and lets say optimistically we're ready to compete in 2021. Colome won't be better than a low end middle reliever at that age.
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  #71  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:02 PM
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Alex Colome will not be on the team the next time we're competing for a playoff spot. He's only under contract this year, and lets say optimistically we're ready to compete in 2021. Colome won't be better than a low end middle reliever at that age.
You have NO CLUE is that is true. You are purely speculating based on statistical trends and those trends have deviations for a reason.
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  #72  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:08 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Alex Colome will not be on the team the next time we're competing for a playoff spot. He's only under contract this year, and lets say optimistically we're ready to compete in 2021. Colome won't be better than a low end middle reliever at that age.
Yeah, I think 2020 is one season too soon to think about legitimately contending for a World Series, and I hope the team approaches this year’s trading deadline with the same outlook. We still have an OF, a 2B, and a 1B developing in the minors. We still have three surgically-repaired pitching elbows rehabbing.
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  #73  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:16 PM
blandman blandman is online now
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
You have NO CLUE is that is true. You are purely speculating based on statistical trends and those trends have deviations for a reason.

You can't predict that using logic, statistics, and trends!

Okay...

We should NOT resign Alex Colome to a long term deal this offseason given his age. If we do, there should be (and will be) a lot to be said about how terrible a move that is.

If the idea is not to trade him, that's because of what he means to the team on the field right now. There is wisdom to taking pressure off developing players, and relievers are no different.

In that vein, I've been thinking about that fire sale in Seattle and wondering if there's wisdom to trading for Dee Gordon. 2B has been an absolute disaster all year, and Gordon's only under contract through next season. He wouldn't require a prospect haul - just a willingness to take on 14 million next season and whatever is left on this year. He immediately would lead off and shift the whole lineup. And he plays 5 positions. If Madrigal forces the issue, Gordon immediately becomes one of the better utility players in the game.


edit: I just realized you were probably more concerned with the competing window. Fair - though as Mohoney pointed out, it's not fair to the players coming back from injury to expect good results the year they're working back. It's not likely to happen that way. And it's also not fair to the minor leaguers that are huge parts of our window that don't fall into the 2020 timeline. Forcing them to be ready that soon, even if there's a chance they can be, isn't something we should be pushing. 2021 is an optimistic take for everything going right. 2020 is the VERY optimistic take, one where I worry that if the team pushes for they may actual damage the work they've done this rebuild.

Last edited by blandman; 06-16-2019 at 12:24 PM.
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  #74  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:27 PM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Alex Colome will not be on the team the next time we're competing for a playoff spot. He's only under contract this year, and lets say optimistically we're ready to compete in 2021. Colome won't be better than a low end middle reliever at that age.
Man, that poor guy is going from a solid closer to a low end middle reliever in the span of 1.5 years. Sucks to be him. Glad we haven’t extended him. Appreciate your foresight!
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  #75  
Old 06-16-2019, 02:52 PM
blandman blandman is online now
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Originally Posted by XplodingScorbord
Man, that poor guy is going from a solid closer to a low end middle reliever in the span of 1.5 years. Sucks to be him. Glad we haven’t extended him. Appreciate your foresight!

He's posted a FIP under three once, very early in his career. He's been mid 3's most of his career. This year his FIP has climbed over 4. Which is all fine, it's his natural progression. But there's a reason he wasn't closing anymore when we acquired him. Tampa traded him because he wasn't their best or close to best reliever. The Mariners also didn't see him in that role.

The guy is going to be 31 next year. His numbers are declining. Why on Earth would you want to sign him long term for the most important role in the pen?
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