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  #31  
Old 04-13-2018, 01:59 PM
wxkid23 wxkid23 is offline
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The issue, no doubt, in people's minds regarding Moncada is his mostly universal spot previously as the #1 prospect in baseball. When people see that they expect immediate and strong results out of the gate. I'll be honest that I haven't closely followed previous #1 prospects and how they have produced out of the gate, but people likely expect Bryce Harper type look of at least "star potential" and what we are seeing with Moncada so far and even going back to last year is concerning. I'll be honest, I've been more excited about Kopech from the beginning despite the fact Moncada was rated higher. I expect Moncada to be a strong 20/80 guy over his career but I've never been sold on him being an MVP type of player. Scouts seem to believe he has that type of potential in him, but do we have the types of coaches to really get that out of him (Steverson?)

As far as Giolito, I was encouraged by reports in the spring that his fastball was back into the mid 90's. Everything I've read on him says he was considered a true ace prospect when he was throwing in the mid to even upper 90's. If his arm speed really has decreased, he still has the offspeed stuff with control to be a #2-#3 type but my expectations of anything more are greatly reduced. I think our best prospects at ever being ace status are Kopech, followed by Hansen, Cease, and a small chance Lopez if his command can improve by leaps and bounds.
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  #32  
Old 04-13-2018, 02:11 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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White Sox now 3-46 in their last six games with RISP.
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  #33  
Old 04-13-2018, 02:15 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by shes View Post
He really didn't. He was all over the place missing his spots, wasn't inducing many whiffs, and his fastball was sitting at 90 most of the game. Like I said, he looked like an unseasoned minor leaguer. I'll grant you that he looked decent in the fifth and sixth, but that was it. He was hot garbage in every other inning last night.
Yeah, we're really being blowing sunshine up everyone's ass if we are claiming that Giolito's performance was good.

Five walks in 6.1 IP with only three strikeouts is not good. His ball-to-strike ratio has been downright poor so far this season. He's not in the zone enough. He's not ahead in counts, and he's creating problems for himself by handing the opposition base runners.

He got a couple of well-timed double plays in the early innings that allowed him to survive, but all he's really doing right now is trying to hang on and not get his team blown out in these starts.

I'm sure my comments will be misconstrued as "impatience" by some people, so let me be clear: I have hopes for Giolito, and I'm in favor of letting him pitch and try to learn his craft at the big-league level.

That said, let's not pretend that it was a good game for him last night. It was not. His first three starts have disappointed me, because I was excited about him after some of the things I saw during spring training.
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  #34  
Old 04-13-2018, 03:50 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Yeah, we're really being blowing sunshine up everyone's ass if we are claiming that Giolito's performance was good.

Five walks in 6.1 IP with only three strikeouts is not good. His ball-to-strike ratio has been downright poor so far this season. He's not in the zone enough. He's not ahead in counts, and he's creating problems for himself by handing the opposition base runners.

He got a couple of well-timed double plays in the early innings that allowed him to survive, but all he's really doing right now is trying to hang on and not get his team blown out in these starts.

I'm sure my comments will be misconstrued as "impatience" by some people, so let me be clear: I have hopes for Giolito, and I'm in favor of letting him pitch and try to learn his craft at the big-league level.

That said, let's not pretend that it was a good game for him last night. It was not. His first three starts have disappointed me, because I was excited about him after some of things I saw during spring training.
I disagree. I think his first couple outings were bad but last night was serviceable. What I looked at last night was the command of the curveball starting to come back to him and that is by far his most important pitch. It's not close to where he was in September of last year or Spring Training but definitely much improved over his first two outings. The walks could also be a byproduct of being "too fine" knowing that his offense was giving him nothing against Berrios. The curveball is also a grip pitch which is tougher to get a feel for in the colder weather. The thing I can't figure out with Giolito is his velocity really seems to rise and fall during a season for him. Last September he was mostly 92-93mph. In Spring Training '18, he was hitting 93-94mph. In his first few starts, he seems to be at 90-91mph. Not sure if he just isn't used to pitching in the cold or if this is going to be a frequent "dead arm" type quirk for him. That curveball of his is nasty when its on though. When he is controlling that pitch, the velocity is less important.

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There is no way this is who he is or else might as well revoke credentials to every Scout in baseball.


This kid is lost and quite frankly I don't know if the Sox have the coaching to help him.
I agree that this is not who Moncada is as a hitter. Swing and miss has always been a part of his game but he clearly has looked lost the last couple games. Abreu and Renteria were apparently talking with Moncada after the game last night. Renteria said in the Sun Times today that they believe he is pulling his head off early which is taking his eye off the baseball at a critical moment. They are working with him to correct this problem. The kid is 22 years old with only 267 ABs in his career. I'm pretty sure the team will be as patient as they need to be with a young player with so little big league experience.
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  #35  
Old 04-13-2018, 04:22 PM
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We've also said that where we sit as an organization right now, we do conceivably have answers at every position. From inside the organization, [we have] long-term answers for a championship club. But we know that baseball doesn't work that way. The baseball gods can be cruel. Unexpected things are going to happen
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...next-big-thing
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  #36  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:10 PM
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I disagree. I think his first couple outings were bad but last night was serviceable. What I looked at last night was the command of the curveball starting to come back to him and that is by far his most important pitch. It's not close to where he was in September of last year or Spring Training but definitely much improved over his first two outings. The walks could also be a byproduct of being "too fine" knowing that his offense was giving him nothing against Berrios. The curveball is also a grip pitch which is tougher to get a feel for in the colder weather. The thing I can't figure out with Giolito is his velocity really seems to rise and fall during a season for him. Last September he was mostly 92-93mph. In Spring Training '18, he was hitting 93-94mph. In his first few starts, he seems to be at 90-91mph. Not sure if he just isn't used to pitching in the cold or if this is going to be a frequent "dead arm" type quirk for him. That curveball of his is nasty when its on though. When he is controlling that pitch, the velocity is less important.
Giolito was serviceable in two innings. The rest of the time he was atrocious. When you're trying to throw a BP fastball and routinely miss your spots by 8-14 inches, that's a significant problem. Regarding the weather, Berrios had to deal with the same elements and was throwing 97 mph and putting his curve exactly where he wanted to all night.

At some point you have to think about sending him down to AAA to work a few things out. His mechanics don't look right, his stuff is bad, his control is maybe the worst in baseball right now. If this persists over the next few outings then you have to seriously look at what can be done to fix him, if anything. A soft-tossing rightie with poor command is typically not long for the big league world.
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  #37  
Old 04-13-2018, 09:25 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
I watched a couple of his outings from spring training, and he was terrific in those games. He seems to have left his stuff in Arizona.

I don't think the 95-96 mph fastball is every coming back, but in spring training, he was commanding pitches and throwing his breaking ball for strikes. That has not been the case in the early going of regular-season play.

It's been disappointing that Giolito has been mediocre at best in each of his three starts. Mediocre is probably being kind.
But it was back in spring training by all accounts, and somehow he didn't take it north. I saw flashes of higher velocity from him during the 3rd inning of his second start, but then by the 4th it was gone again. He's fighting his mechanics again, and if you follow Fegan on Twitter he's(Giolito) acknowledged as much.
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  #38  
Old 04-14-2018, 04:44 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986 View Post
But it was back in spring training by all accounts, and somehow he didn't take it north. I saw flashes of higher velocity from him during the 3rd inning of his second start, but then by the 4th it was gone again. He's fighting his mechanics again, and if you follow Fegan on Twitter he's(Giolito) acknowledged as much.
Fighting mechanics this early out of spring training is not a good sign.
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  #39  
Old 04-14-2018, 08:26 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is online now
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Fighting mechanics this early out of spring training is not a good sign.
But it does imply it's fixable.
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  #40  
Old 04-14-2018, 12:05 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Sox are hitting .150, last in the American League, with a runner on 3rd base and less than two outs.

They are so in a rut right now they can't even hit a sacrifice fly to drive the guy in.

They've also hit into 13 double plays, tops in the American League.
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  #41  
Old 04-14-2018, 07:39 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
But it does imply it's fixable.

Sure mechanics can be fixed. Fixing them during the season is not the best time to do this type of work.

Many things are capable of being fixed. That's not the question. The question is will his mechanics get fixed.
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  #42  
Old 04-14-2018, 07:44 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Sox are hitting .150, last in the American League, with a runner on 3rd base and less than two outs.

They are so in a rut right now they can't even hit a sacrifice fly to drive the guy in.

They've also hit into 13 double plays, tops in the American League.
They are so in a rut right now they can't even hit a sacrifice fly a hard ground ball to the left side of the infield to drive the guy in.

Fixed it for ya Lip.

:')
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