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  #1  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:35 AM
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Chez Chez is offline
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Default L. Garcia to the DL

The Sox placed Leury Garcia on the DL this morning with a sprained finger. No corresponding roster move made yet -- I'm guessing Adam Engel will be back. Sox have been playing with a short bench for over a week (since Leury was injured). I'm glad they finally made this decision.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:17 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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All you can do is laugh at all the injuries.

I have to go back to 1973 the last time I can recall the Sox being gutted by so many guys getting hurt. This is far worse than 2001, 2004, 2007, 2010 in my opinion. If memory serves in 73' they used the DL 30 times or so.

I guess in a way if it has to happen this is the time for it in year one of the rebuild but it is still frustrating as hell because some of the guys who are hurt could have been used to help sweeten potential trades.

Oh well.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:49 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
All you can do is laugh at all the injuries.

I have to go back to 1973 the last time I can recall the Sox being gutted by so many guys getting hurt. This is far worse than 2001, 2004, 2007, 2010 in my opinion. If memory serves in 73' they used the DL 30 times or so.

I guess in a way if it has to happen this is the time for it in year one of the rebuild but it is still frustrating as hell because some of the guys who are hurt could have been used to help sweeten potential trades.

Oh well.
The Sox are not seeing anything the rest of baseball isn't. They are 13th in number of players to the DL in 2017, and 11th in player days spent on the DL. There is nothing overly special about the Sox as far as the 2017 DL goes.

Further, with the 10-day DL, players are more likley to actually be placed on the DL.

Again, context versus the rest of baseball is important.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:25 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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So is this a banner year for players going on the DL in MLB?
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:47 PM
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Again, context versus the rest of baseball is important.
Two points:

1. Yes context is important as was my last statement. These guys were needed to potentially sweeten some deals for prospects, especially the bullpen guys.

2. The Sox (and some of the fan base) has made a big deal about keeping guys healthy the past decade or so. OK. Then someone explain what happened this year? Law of averages catching up with them? Bad luck?? Or perhaps the off season conditioning program needs to be re-evaluated???

Inquiring minds want to know if this is a fluke or the start of a trend somehow.

If it happens to be the start of a trend in baseball then it is even more crucial long term for the Sox to have a good minor league system talent-wise to replace people even short term (and right now there is very little depth in the system...example Cody Asche.)

Last edited by Lip Man 1; 06-19-2017 at 02:04 PM.
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  #6  
Old 06-19-2017, 01:49 PM
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FWIW, I think the change from the 15 day to 10 day DL has resulted in more DL stints. Teams are quicker to pull the trigger on sending players to the DL.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Two points:

1. Yes context is important as was my last statement. These guys were needed to potentially sweeten some deals for prospects, especially the bullpen guys.

2. The Sox (and some of the fan base) has made a big deal about keeping guys healthy the past decade or so. OK. Then someone explain what happened this year? Law of averages catching up with them? Bad luck?? Or perhaps the off season conditioning program needs to be re-evaluated???

Inquiring minds want to know if this is a fluke or the start of a trend somehow.

If it happens to be the start of a trend in baseball then it is even more crucial long term for the Sox to have a good minor league system talent-wise to replace people even short term (and right now there is very little depth in the system...example Cody Asche.)
I have no idea why the White Sox signed Cody Asche. I saw him with the Phillies last year and was my impression was very negative. He was a hot prospect in teh Phillies minor league system, never highly ranked, but a very good AAA hitter who continues to be a very good AAA hitter. He's still a very good AAA hitter. He's hitting .372 with 6 home runs and 5 doubles in 25 games. As a comparison, Yoan Moncada in 52 games is hitting .287 with 8 home runs and 7 doubles in 52 games. Both walk at about the same rate, but Moncada strikes out much, more more frequently.

Based on what I've seen of Asche, I don't know if he'll ever be a good major league hitter. But he is outhitting the White Sox top prospect in the same lineup. When he was about Moncada's age, he was putting up AAA numbers similar to Moncada this year with fewer strikeouts. He couldn't help the great Phillies rebuild, going on since 2012 and perhaps not yet bottomed out in its ability to put a competitive major league team on the field, but if all you're looking at is trade value, Asche is more attractive in trade now than when he was playing occasionally and not well for the Sox because now he looks like a cheap potential quick fix, somebody who could even be part of an August waiver deal as rosters are on the verge of expanding.

As for the disabled list, I don't see any reason for concern. Teams are using the DL differently than they did in the past. With the 10-day DL, you see more nagging injuries going there. If you miss a couple of games with strained quadriceps or a sore wrist and it doesn't get any better, retroactively, you can go on the DL and rest it for a week.

I would be more concerned with the White Sox developing a pitching staff that can win and close out games. I've been disappointed by what they've been able to do in the trade market since the end of last season, and I wouldn't expect more than lateral movement trades at best at midseason.

But the important thing is that you get excited because the team is different, until the new players come up to the majors and disappoint you.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:10 PM
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FWIW, I think the change from the 15 day to 10 day DL has resulted in more DL stints. Teams are quicker to pull the trigger on sending players to the DL.
Bingo. It is less of a problem. Especially when you can make the trip retroactive.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:45 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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Bingo. It is less of a problem. Especially when you can make the trip retroactive.
Except specifically with the Sox this year (can't speak for any other team) the injuries they've had have put guys on the shelf for weeks and / or months.

Every time someone in the organization told the press, "precautionary," "only miss a few starts," "not serious"...well the facts speak for themselves.

Sox players this year have been getting hurt at an alarming rate to me and the fact that they changed the DL from 15 days to 10 has little to nothing to do with it (or else these guys would have been back as soon as they were eligible to return or very shortly thereafter.) The DL change doesn't wash again in my opinion if you look at how long these guys have been on the shelf especially pitchers despite Cooper and the training staff.

So I ask the original question again. Law of averages catching up? Bad luck?? Off season conditioning program needs to be re-evaluated??? Something else????

Doesn't matter this year but it would matter greatly if this was say 2019 with all the young prospects.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:16 PM
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I have no idea why the White Sox signed Cody Asche. I saw him with the Phillies last year and was my impression was very negative. He was a hot prospect in teh Phillies minor league system, never highly ranked, but a very good AAA hitter who continues to be a very good AAA hitter. He's still a very good AAA hitter. He's hitting .372 with 6 home runs and 5 doubles in 25 games. As a comparison, Yoan Moncada in 52 games is hitting .287 with 8 home runs and 7 doubles in 52 games. Both walk at about the same rate, but Moncada strikes out much, more more frequently.

Based on what I've seen of Asche, I don't know if he'll ever be a good major league hitter. But he is outhitting the White Sox top prospect in the same lineup. When he was about Moncada's age, he was putting up AAA numbers similar to Moncada this year with fewer strikeouts. He couldn't help the great Phillies rebuild, going on since 2012 and perhaps not yet bottomed out in its ability to put a competitive major league team on the field, but if all you're looking at is trade value, Asche is more attractive in trade now than when he was playing occasionally and not well for the Sox because now he looks like a cheap potential quick fix, somebody who could even be part of an August waiver deal as rosters are on the verge of expanding.

As for the disabled list, I don't see any reason for concern. Teams are using the DL differently than they did in the past. With the 10-day DL, you see more nagging injuries going there. If you miss a couple of games with strained quadriceps or a sore wrist and it doesn't get any better, retroactively, you can go on the DL and rest it for a week.

I would be more concerned with the White Sox developing a pitching staff that can win and close out games. I've been disappointed by what they've been able to do in the trade market since the end of last season, and I wouldn't expect more than lateral movement trades at best at midseason.

But the important thing is that you get excited because the team is different, until the new players come up to the majors and disappoint you.

TDog:


I don't think any of us who are on record of approving the Sox new direction/plan will dispute your right to tell us, "I told you so" if the rebuild fails.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:23 PM
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TDog:


I don't think any of us who are on record of approving the Sox new direction/plan will dispute your right to tell us, "I told you so" if the rebuild fails.
Until I hear another possible solution to turning things around, I sure dont want to be told, "I told you so".
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1
All you can do is laugh at all the injuries.

I have to go back to 1973 the last time I can recall the Sox being gutted by so many guys getting hurt. This is far worse than 2001, 2004, 2007, 2010 in my opinion. If memory serves in 73' they used the DL 30 times or so.

I guess in a way if it has to happen this is the time for it in year one of the rebuild but it is still frustrating as hell because some of the guys who are hurt could have been used to help sweeten potential trades.

Oh well.
In 2004, the team lost Magglio Ordonez and Frank Thomas to season-ending injuries. No one on this year's DL, with the possible exception of Carlos Rodon, comes anywhere close to that level of importance. This year's quantity of injuries may be high, but we're not exactly losing All-Star talent.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:50 PM
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TDog:


I don't think any of us who are on record of approving the Sox new direction/plan will dispute your right to tell us, "I told you so" if the rebuild fails.
I don't think it's a plan at this point, and a possibly sarcastic smiley face is better than rolling eyes. Still, quickly dismissing me ignores points I am making, I think those on board with the rebuild, whatever that is, are not simply in favor of trading everyone for as many prospects as you can get.

I've never seen a team build a winning by trading controllable contributing players for prospects. Maybe it's because MLB does so much to promote young talent in their effort to generate more interest in their product that people overlook that vast pool of highly-touted young talent that never develops into stardom because there is an increasingly greater margin for scouting error the farther a player is away from being major league ready. Gambling on draft choices and international signings and keeping the players you actually do develop along the way, trading for major league/major league-ready talent, is a smarter way to rebuild.

Some of us, who have seen teams fail miserably by doing what many heare want the White Sox to be doing (the trade everyone of value for prospect5s nonsense,) would prefer to see the Sox actually build a winner the way the Giants did heading into this decade, securing pitching and building a strong bullpen.

Smart rebuilding builds on what you have. It doesn't trade it all for talented athletes who need to be developed into into major leaguers. But people here have more confidence than I do about the ability of the White Sox organization to develop talent

But if you want to believe in trading everyone for players who look like they might be good someday, and a couple of years ago, Cody Ashe, not to mention Alan Hanson, would have qualiied, that's more a dream than a plan.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:01 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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In 2004, the team lost Magglio Ordonez and Frank Thomas to season-ending injuries. No one on this year's DL, with the possible exception of Carlos Rodon, comes anywhere close to that level of importance. This year's quantity of injuries may be high, but we're not exactly losing All-Star talent.
Never said they were and I mentioned earlier that in numbers this is like 1973 all over again. 2001, 2004, 2007 and 2010 (when almost the entire bullpen went on the DL in August with the Sox in first place) were nothing like this...although 2001 from a pitching perspective is close...
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:11 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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T-Dog:

It seems to me that the real essence of the Sox plan, if they have one, is to build through the draft and amateur free agent signings, and then - unlike in past years where they rushed prospects to the majors and/or dealt them for veterans with a mind toward competing in the present - take time to develop those prospects at the expense of competing at the major league level in the present.

Such a plan didn't require trading Sale and Eaton. In fact, one could argue they might be competitive with those two players this year. But the Sox judged that they didn't have the team necessary to compete with them, and wouldn't before their respective deals expired and/or their team-friendly contracts meant they could - and did - acquire multiple top prospects.

I am glad the minor league system is improving. I can only hope that from among the top prospects already in the system, plus the next few drafts, we can build another core like the early 90s core of McDowell, Ventura, Thomas, Fernandez, Johnson, Alvarez, Sosa, Karkovice and Guillen, or the early 2000s core of Thomas, Konerko, Magglio, Lee, Crede, Rowand, Buehrle, Garland and Cotts.

I didn't like dealing Sale and Eaton, either. But what's done is done, and, having settled on a course, I can do no other than hope it succeeds.

That said, the Sox have proven they can develop pitching, and they are starting to assemble some interesting position player prospects as well.
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