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  #16  
Old 06-15-2017, 01:36 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxSpeed22
It is hard to complain, since we picked up Gonzalez from the scrap heap. He had a nice year last year, and had a nice first few starts, but it looks like people are figuring him out.
In all fairness, he was considered to be the fifth-best starting pitching option (maybe fourth-best, ahead of Holland?) in the organization when spring training began. His results to date are right in line with that initial assessment. Right now, his shortcomings are magnified because the second starter has made zero starts, the third starter has made only three starts, and the staff ace has had an absolute nightmare of a season.
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  #17  
Old 06-15-2017, 02:18 PM
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RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
He didn't get a lot of help in the fourth inning, but that fifth inning was on him. Ridiculous to walk Schoop after an 0-2 count.

Some think Gonzalez is a trade piece. Not a chance.
Gonzalez, Pelfrey, Infante, Minaya are roster fill in at best. Your right as they have little to no value. Any one of them could be waived at any time. The only real trade value is Quintana, Robertson, Swarzak, Frazier, Cabrera. and Holland. I can't see them moving A. Garcia or Abreu; especially with Garcia finally coming into his own.
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  #18  
Old 06-15-2017, 02:47 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by RCWHITESOX View Post
Gonzalez, Pelfrey, Infante, Minaya are roster fill in at best. Your right as they have little to no value. Any one of them could be waived at any time. The only real trade value is Quintana, Robertson, Swarzak, Frazier, Cabrera. and Holland. I can't see them moving A. Garcia or Abreu; especially with Garcia finally coming into his own.

Imagine how noncompetitive the team would be if the White Sox traded their non-roster-fill players to contenders who need them (for prospects those teams consider expendable in their quest to win).

Imagine how rough it will be for years to come if the prospects don't adjust to the majors with the ease of Chris Sale.

Baseball is about the pitching. Not having it consistently makes you worse than mediocre and tgwaking it up a notch can make a mediocre team very, very good.

In the end, Wednesday night's game looked like a game that could have been played by the White Sox in any of the last several years when the team was short on pitching.

In reality, the more quality pitching you trade, the more you will be forced to rush your prospects.
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  #19  
Old 06-15-2017, 02:59 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Well, it's a good thing there is no indication so far that they are going to rush any prospects.

Another HR by Davidson and another solid night for Avi. Watching Garcia this year has been a pleasure. Don't know if he has figured it out now (I hope) so I'll enjoy his season while it lasts. The pitching has been a weakness and will continue to be so until Shields and Rodon are back.
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  #20  
Old 06-15-2017, 03:30 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
In reality, the more quality pitching you trade, the more you will be forced to rush your prospects.
Not if the organization in question decides to not rush their prospects. Retread starters come available all the time.
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  #21  
Old 06-15-2017, 05:02 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Not if the organization in question decides to not rush their prospects. Retread starters come available all the time.

And often they can't get pas third inning.

Not bringing up prospects to learn to develop at the major league level will do mor harm to your pitching staff. Jon Garland required several years at the major league level after he had nothing more to learn in the minors. Even then, he was only great in 2005 And Chances are, some of those hot prospects will go Scott Ruffcorn on you even if they appear to be ready.

If you want to rebuild, you're going to have to concede some development at the major league level. If you don't, you really don't know what you have.
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  #22  
Old 06-15-2017, 05:34 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog
And often they can't get pas third inning.

Not bringing up prospects to learn to develop at the major league level will do mor harm to your pitching staff. Jon Garland required several years at the major league level after he had nothing more to learn in the minors. Even then, he was only great in 2005 And Chances are, some of those hot prospects will go Scott Ruffcorn on you even if they appear to be ready.

If you want to rebuild, you're going to have to concede some development at the major league level. If you don't, you really don't know what you have.
Which is exactly what the team will be doing in 2018 and 2019.

Do you plan on lamenting over the Chris Sale trade in every single postgame thread when a White Sox starter pitches poorly?
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  #23  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:07 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Which is exactly what the team will be doing in 2018 and 2019.

Do you plan on lamenting over the Chris Sale trade in every single postgame thread when a White Sox starter pitches poorly?
I didn't mention Chris Sale. I was responding to the unrealistic expectations people have about the success of the fantasy rebuild they imagine for the White Sox, who haven't made many trades at all since the rebuild began.

It is a shame that every postgame thread is full of discussion over how this will affect trade values of players and the excitement over new prospects that have yet to be identified. And it's fortunate that the Sox didn't trade Avisail Garcia (who many wanted to non-tender this offseason) and Matt Davidson to clean out the dead wood for hte rebuild.

If you want to build a winning team, build a winning team. Solidify your starting rotation, build a deeper bullpen and cut down on your strikeouts to get the most out of run-scoring opportunities. With pitching and smart situational hitting, you don't need Baltimore's offense, but without the pitching, you're a .500 team with Baltimore's offense. But if it were as easy as it sounds, the Giants wouldn't be such a miserable team this year.


What's easy is rebuilding because you don't have to win. If you want to lose now and for some time in the future, you can trade players who have had success at the major league level for prospects who have never had success at the major league level and aren't on the verge of making it to the majors.

The more trades you make, or players you otherwise dump, the more prospects you will see come up. That's the way every team in rebuild mode does it. That's the way the White Sox did it last year. When the White Sox found the need to designate Jimmy Rollins last year, they brought up Tim Anderson, who appears to be still adjusting to the majors.
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  #24  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:10 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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And it's fortunate that the Sox didn't trade Avisail Garcia (who many wanted to non-tender this offseason)

With a very good reason to non-tender. While he's far exceeded anything I'd have imaged he'd work to do I would not extend him until he proves this three-eights of a season is not a fluke.
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  #25  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:30 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog
I was responding to the unrealistic expectations people have about the success of the fantasy rebuild they imagine for the White Sox
Which is a point of contention you continue to revisit with seemingly every post...

You talk about how you're tired of hearing about trade values and future prospects in every post game thread. That's fine, but some of us are tired of hearing about how we're all being played for a bunch of saps because we support the direction the team decided to take.
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  #26  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:55 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Which is a point of contention you continue to revisit with seemingly every post...

You talk about how you're tired of hearing about trade values and future prospects in every post game thread. That's fine, but some of us are tired of hearing about how we're all being played for a bunch of saps because we support the direction the team decided to take.
If you want to treat every postgame thread as a chance to evaluate the potential trade value of anyone on the team, you should expect an opposing argument.

Disagreeing with you, and actually taking the time to explain why I disagree with you, isn't treating you like a sap.
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  #27  
Old 06-15-2017, 08:10 PM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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1) Our future 2018 Opening Day lineup should have Abreu, Moncada, Anderson, Davidson in the infield. Avi Garcia and L. Garcia should be in the outfield. Considering the division the White Sox are in I feel if some of the starting pitchers in the minors are successful up in the bigs next season this team might be able to make a run for the 2018 Playoffs. The team probably needs one more outfielder/DH who can hit also.
2) The more I see of Willie Garcia the more I'm convinced he won't be with the team too much longer. He looks lost at the plate and hasn't looked good defensively.
3) I realize the season is still young but the AL is winning again against the NL in inter league baseball games. The NL hasn't won a inter league season series since 2003. What I'm trying to say is the American League Rules!

Last edited by Golden Sox; 06-16-2017 at 07:33 AM.
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  #28  
Old 06-15-2017, 08:59 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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1) Our future 2018 Opening Day lineup should have Abreu, Moncada, Anderson, Davidson in the infield. Avi Garcia and L. Garcia should be in the outfield.
Avi should take on more of a DH role. Leury Garcia is a utility player at best.

The White Sox have to shore up the outfield defense for 2018.
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  #29  
Old 06-15-2017, 10:15 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
And it's fortunate that the Sox didn't trade Avisail Garcia (who many wanted to non-tender this offseason)

With a very good reason to non-tender. While he's far exceeded anything I'd have imaged he'd work to do I would not extend him until he proves this three-eights of a season is not a fluke.
Agreed. Let's see what happens going forward.
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  #30  
Old 06-15-2017, 10:17 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
1) Our future 2018 Opening Day lineup should have Abreu, Moncada, Anderson, Davidson in the infield. Avi Garcia and L. Garcia should be in the outfield.
L. Garcia is at best a decent utility player. He is not an everyday player, that will eventually expose his weaknesses among them outfield defense in my opinion.
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