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  #46  
Old 06-04-2017, 10:49 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
The Sox and several other MLB teams are following a similar rebuild model. Hardly a myth, and sorry you can't embrace what was really the only way to logically go per baseball experts. It may not work in the end. But neither was 8 years of trying to plus holes. That this team was going to compete by filling holes is the myth. Because we've already lived that. Over and over.
Well said. Some "experts" simply can't seem to grasp the concept that with current ownership and the current front office this was about the only option available that had any reasonable chance of success.

It's not like the team was going to spend 150 million bucks on mediocre free agents that were available (in general terms) and that they were going to make a real, significant difference in the play on the field.

It's painful yes...absolutely... but it was also painful in 2007, 2009, 2011, 2013, 2014 and 2015.
  #47  
Old 06-05-2017, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Well here we are mired in another losing streak. Interest here is about as dead as can be, no game threads or hardly any postgamers. This is the worst period of losing as a White Sox fan that I have experienced since the early 50s. I know we are rebuilding but is there a guarantee that the team will be a contender in 2 years. The Pirates went 20 years without a winning season. This will be our 5th straight losing season with only 2 winning seasons since 2008 with another losing season most likely in 2018.

Sorry but I'm sick and tired with all the losing, especially since I'm not getting any younger, I'll be 72 next February. I'm sick and tired of seeing a ballpark that is empty most of the time, I'm sick and tired of the White Sox being second class citizens in Chicago.

Besides the Sox I've have not had a good 2017 with some Golf related injuries and a lousy bout of the flu in February, I am bone on bone in the right knee and am probably going to have a total knee replacement later this year, on top of that I had an accident in my golf cart 3 weeks ago slamming into a palm tree causing me to fall out of the cart sustaining a bunch of nasty bruises. I guess some of you can understand why my disposition is so bad with the Sox making it worse.

Again I'm sorry but as far as the Sox are concerned, I'm a crotchety old man who needed to vent, and guess what, I don't feel any better and I'm still sick and tired.
I hear ya. You are about 30 years my senior, but I don't think you are a crotchety old man for being unhappy with the current state of White Sox baseball. Your frustration is totally understandable.

I still cringe when people try to convince me that rebuilding is "fun" or "exciting." No, the rebuilding process is long, boring, disheartening and arduous for true fans who follow the team day after day. You hope there is a reward at the end, but there is no guarantee.

This weekend series against the Tigers was disgusting. The Sox played horrendous baseball. I was watching Sunday's game, and during that seemingly interminable bottom of the sixth inning, I thought to myself, "I've never been more bored watching a baseball game in my life. This is bad, boring and disengaging." Is it any wonder the interest in the Sox is so low? What reason does anyone have to follow *this* season? Not 2019, *this* season.

And you should be able to offer critical words without having someone lecture you about how awesome the 2019 season is allegedly going to be. For the benefit of all of us, I hope this turns around that quick, but I don't think so.

Me personally, I think it's going to be about 2021 or 2022 before the Sox return to legitimate contention, and that's if the rebuilding plan goes well.

In the meantime, I don't think any Sox fan should have to apologize for being pissed off about the team being outscored 32-10 in a three-game series against the goddamn Detroit Tigers, who are "mired in mediocrity" in their own right.

I'm really sick and tired of hearing that I should be OK with this crap because the Sox "finally have a plan." My reaction to that is basically, "New script, same bad actors."
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Last edited by JB98; 06-05-2017 at 02:21 AM.
  #48  
Old 06-05-2017, 02:18 AM
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That's true and very positive.
ON the other hand, most of the trade-bait hasn't enhanced its value, if not reduced it. The FO made the affirmative choice not to move more than 1 player August and 2 over the winter.
A new front office that would take a fresh, objective look at personnel night have been the best course for the future. Hard to understand how a FO that was so inept in trying to build around Sale, Eaton et al. deserved another whack.
You and I have disagreed many times on this board, but I agree 100 percent that the organization would benefit from a new front office.

I've said many times that I don't trust the rebuild, because this "plan" is being run by the same folks who could not find a way to put even a .500 team on the field -- let alone a contender -- with Sale, Quintana, Eaton and Abreu on the roster.
  #49  
Old 06-05-2017, 06:13 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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I agree with JB98. Rebuilding is not a fun thing, and the Detroit series was a horrible thing to watch. Timely hitting didn't exist, the defense was horrible, and the manager is beginning to make me wonder. Also there is no fun watching a team attempt to set new franchise records for futility.

The front office began turning the roster over after the laughable 2013 season, but here we are, four years later, and the team can't play .500 ball.

At least there seems to be a plan, but I have never been one to tear a team down to the bones. The Bulls, the other franchise Jerry Reinsdorf runs, did that with the hopes of "winning without Michael." Almost 20 years later they haven't won much, and they began their rebuilding with six straight seasons of losing basketball.
  #50  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:10 AM
mccoydp mccoydp is offline
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I agree with you, Little Nell. I really love watching and following the Sox, but it sure has been hard over these past few years. The only thing that seemed to help me cope was my deployments from 2010-2011 and 2016-2017. I had to go without watching the Sox in real-time due to the time difference, so I compensated by checking box scores, replay videos, condensed games, etc. If the Sox didn't win, or do anything particularly interesting, I didn't go out of my way to catch up. In the interim, I discovered that my life went on, regardless of their win/loss record. I still watch the games on MLB.tv, but I won't watch a blowout or obvious loss. I've got too many other things to do. I do hope that your health improves and that you're able to enjoy life much better as a result.
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  #51  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:23 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
I agree with JB98. Rebuilding is not a fun thing, and the Detroit series was a horrible thing to watch. Timely hitting didn't exist, the defense was horrible, and the manager is beginning to make me wonder. Also there is no fun watching a team attempt to set new franchise records for futility.

The front office began turning the roster over after the laughable 2013 season, but here we are, four years later, and the team can't play .500 ball.

At least there seems to be a plan, but I have never been one to tear a team down to the bones. The Bulls, the other franchise Jerry Reinsdorf runs, did that with the hopes of "winning without Michael." Almost 20 years later they haven't won much, and they began their rebuilding with six straight seasons of losing basketball.
Even if we were to tear down completely, I have little faith that the scouting staff full of "Sox lifers" would be able to draft the talent needed to turn things around.

Hopefully, Hahn can continue getting quality hitting prospects in deals and make signings like the Robert signing. Along with keep drafting pitchers, which seems to be the best the scouting and development staff can do. Maybe in 2019 these kids come up and form the core of a quality team, and we'll need to fill in veterans.

As far as things outside of Hahn's office, sadly, we may need to wait for new ownership after Jerry passes, as I don't see things changing anytime soon and key players are too entrenched in their jobs.
  #52  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:41 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
This thread is surprising.....oh wait, no it's not. June and the bellyaching continues, sad.
I've been on the "Hey, we're stuck waiting and they were open about it, so it is what it is" side, but I *do* understand the frustration. The difference is I chose (a few years ago, actually, when the team just sucked instead of was rebuilding and sucked) to pretty much not watch games. I bet the number of full games I've watched the last three years is under 30. This is from someone who would watch/listen to (to the extent possible) every pitch up to a few years back.

I get that others don't want to step back - they don't want the joy of one of their favorite hobbies taken from them and left with this continuing morass of horrible baseball. So I get the anger.
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  #53  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:41 AM
skobabe8 skobabe8 is offline
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Hang in there Nell.
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  #54  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:42 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
As far as things outside of Hahn's office, sadly, we may need to wait for new ownership after Jerry passes, as I don't see things changing anytime soon and key players are too entrenched in their jobs.
Haven't things changed though? The Sox finally admitted defeat with their patchwork "Stars and Scrubs" strategy and committed to building a team through young, controllable talent.
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  #55  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:59 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I get that others don't want to step back - they don't want the joy of one of their favorite hobbies taken from them and left with this continuing morass of horrible baseball. So I get the anger.
It's cyclical, I don't understand anger over something so basic. I think this season has offered more to be positive about than I ever imagined. The performances of Garcia (x 2), Sanchez and Davidson continue to blow me away. Love watching young guys figure it out, even if for just one season.
  #56  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:36 AM
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I completely understand how frustrating and sad it is to watch THIS year's team. If you enjoy weeing good winning baseball it can be hard. I also understand the fact we are looking to and playing for the future at the moment so the results don't matter and actually losing is in many ways preferable. That doesn't change the fact that as I follow games I still root for them to win and the losing still hurts on a daily basis regardless of how I feel about the direction of the team (hopeful).

It's going to be a rough couple of years for daily baseball success and joy. As a sports fan and optimist by nature Ii tend to get a small emotional high off of every individual win. Missing on those daily moments of joy wears me down a bit. Not in a dramatic way, but yeah it's not a great time for winning baseball.

I have hope the future brings everything we want and the team is back in the playoff hunt in a few years. I feel optimistic about that even if watching the team play this year is less than perfect.

Oh and good luck with the knee, Little Nell. My father had both hips and a knee replaced said the knee was harder but he didn't regret the decisions as it was better to life pain free.
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  #57  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:50 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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The last time the Sox went though an extensive tear down and rebuild was 1987-1989, and they unexpectedly contended in 1990.

The 1998-1999 rebuild was less extensive, because several of the core players were already on the team or in the system.

But both situations had something in common: I lost significant interest in White Sox baseball.

I'll admit that I am disinterested in the fortunes of the major league franchise, but I'm rooting for:

Individual success of tradeable veterans to increase their value;

The development of future core pieces;

A reduced win total, to secure the highest possible draft choice in 2018 (and maybe 2019 as well).
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  #58  
Old 06-05-2017, 11:49 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
It's cyclical, I don't understand anger over something so basic. I think this season has offered more to be positive about than I ever imagined. The performances of Garcia (x 2), Sanchez and Davidson continue to blow me away. Love watching young guys figure it out, even if for just one season.
I would never knock you for your optimism. People with a perpetually positive nature have accomplished great things in life. However, when you are a die hard for a team that has been to the World Series twice since Warren Harding was President I think you more than qualify in the patience department. Recent posts by JB and Dan H say it for me. I'm sure you say it for quite a few too. Diversity of thought is grand. In the meantime after the weekend debauchery in Detroit I'd at least like to see more baseball smarts and fewer brain cramps out there. Part of the development process is learning to play smarter.
  #59  
Old 06-05-2017, 12:36 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Even if we were to tear down completely, I have little faith that the scouting staff full of "Sox lifers" would be able to draft the talent needed to turn things around.

Hopefully, Hahn can continue getting quality hitting prospects in deals and make signings like the Robert signing. Along with keep drafting pitchers, which seems to be the best the scouting and development staff can do. Maybe in 2019 these kids come up and form the core of a quality team, and we'll need to fill in veterans.

As far as things outside of Hahn's office, sadly, we may need to wait for new ownership after Jerry passes, as I don't see things changing anytime soon and key players are too entrenched in their jobs.
There is a lot of truth in this comment in my opinion but again given the limitations (both self imposed and not) rebuilding was the only option available.
  #60  
Old 06-05-2017, 12:39 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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One of the most disappointing things to me is actually the lack of activity on this site. I've never been a heavy poster here, but always enjoyed lurking and reading other people's comments, especially because I live out of state and don't get to watch many games. I still lurk around here just as often as previous years, but it's a shame there are no longer daily game and post-game threads. That was kind of a shock to me, as there have always been game threads, even towards the end of the year after the team has been eliminated from the playoffs.

Not that I'm helping the situation much because I don't post all that often, but again I have never posted all that often here (primarily, again, because I don't get to watch many games). I guess I just expected more from this community of hard core Sox fans. I don't want it to seem like I'm attacking you guys, just being honest.
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