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  #61  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:06 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fungo bat View Post
Rather than projecting a 2020 opening day lineup, I took a different approach. I am all in on the rebuild. But I caution all regarding the bust out rate in the big leagues. Here's my lineup of young, promising Sox prospects, most of them high draft picks of fairly recent vintage, who didn't pan out very well in the big show. Many of you will remember some of these disappointments:

Nyles Nyman, lf
Kenny Williams, cf
Royle Stillman, rf
Kevin Bell, 3b
Mike Caruso, ss
Donnie Hill, 2b
Cotton Nash, 1b
Pete Varney, c
Lorenzo Gray, dh
Scott Ruffcorn, p
Cisco Carlos, p

I hope our current prospects will fair well in MLB, but the fact is a few aren't going to make much of a splash.
That list is rather random. I think 99% of posters understand the volatility of prospects, but at least the future holds a great deal promise.
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  #62  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:20 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is online now
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The GM of a MLB team is suppose to produce winning teams. Himes might not have won any popularity contests but he produced good White Sox teams. One of the greatest GMs in the history of MLB was Yankees GM George Weiss. From what everything I've read about Weiss is that he didn't have a friend in the entire Yankees organization. But he produced so well he's one of the few MLB GMs in the MLB HOF. I was at a seminar with former Yankees pitcher Bob Turley. Turley said the Yankees players didn't care that Casey Stengel was shown the door as Yankees manager after the 1960 World Series. The players couldn't believe that the Yankees let Weiss go also. Weiss was heartbroken and bitter about it. He said the Yankees would be good for another 4 seasons. After that the team would decline. he was right on target. The Yankees went south in 1965 and it took years for them to become good again. When the NL gave New York an expansion team the first thing the Mets did was hire George Weiss. All that being said, who would rather have as a GM. Larry Himes of Rick Hahn?
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  #63  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:24 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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I think it's important for Sox fans to understand and accept that all these prospects are on individual timelines. Some may progress through the system relatively quickly. Some may take longer.

Most of our best hitting prospects - not counting Moncada - are at the A+ level and below (although one could make the case that Jimenez might belong at AA Birmingham right now).

Therefore, while many of the top position player prospects might make the team out of spring training in 2020, that could be a really trying year. In addition, 2021 might be a year when many of them go through sophomore slumps.

I really think we need to wait until 2022 to see if this rebuild project has been successful.

The Sox need to be patient. We need to be patient.
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  #64  
Old 07-18-2017, 11:31 AM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
I think it's important for Sox fans to understand and accept that all these prospects are on individual timelines. Some may progress through the system relatively quickly. Some may take longer.

Most of our best hitting prospects - not counting Moncada - are at the A+ level and below (although one could make the case that Jimenez might belong at AA Birmingham right now).

Therefore, while many of the top position player prospects might make the team out of spring training in 2020, that could be a really trying year. In addition, 2021 might be a year when many of them go through sophomore slumps.

I really think we need to wait until 2022 to see if this rebuild project has been successful.

The Sox need to be patient. We need to be patient.
I am not going to say the Sox are ready to win next year or anything, but I do think 2020 is a realistic goal for competing. An awful lot of high end prospects here now that should have short paths (without the old white sox way of rushing them through the system)
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  #65  
Old 07-18-2017, 01:02 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
There are no sure bets - regardless of strategy - period. They could have kept Sale, Eaton, and Q, added the 3 most sought-after free agents, and still be sitting home during the post-season.

It's not that difficult - the Sox poor drafting, terrible farm system, and poor FA signings put them in the position they're in today. They had 2 choices - continue to try to buy their way into contention by signing the likes of Todd Frazier, Adam Dunn, Melky Cabrera, etc., or they could try to build something more sustainable and longer-lasting by revamping their farm system. I really can't believe there are fans that would have opted for the latter.

The other part of the free-agency approach is that you not only have to pony up the cash, but the player has to agree to come. Furthermore, the FA crop in '17 was bad and it might be worse in '18. I'd rather they roll the dice on Moncada and Jiminez than throw a bunch of money at Upton or Cespedes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Roarman View Post
Well they were an 84 loss team last year even with the mirage of the first 20 something games. 87 the year before that. 89 losses before that. Wanna keep going? Because it doesn't get any prettier. And that was with Sale and Quintana. That wasn't getting old? That wasn't grating? That wasn't making you think "Hmm maybe this route isn't working" ? How many more of those seasons did you want? Because that's exactly what you were gonna get if they didn't go for the full rebuild.

They were going NOWHERE, with or without those guys. Would you have preferred more lost seasons like that instead and only realizing when it's too late that they should've blown it up? I don't understand what people were expecting. That they were gonna compete?

They've rebuilt their farm system over one offseason and halfway through this season with the best talent you could've POSSIBLY hoped for if a team were to go this route. Best talent you possibly could've hoped for. From the basement to the top of the league. In less than a year.

And the one thing I wouldn't really worry about is pitching. If there's anything we know about the White Sox and what they can actually do well, it's develop pitching. They've built and re-built a lot of players that were nothing but guys that teams didn't want and made them into good to great pitchers. Even Sale, as regarded as he was, there were doubts about him among scouts that he wouldn't be able to hold up. It's just gonna take a few years, which is exactly what they have.
I hear you guys and thanks for your thoughtful well written replies. They need two position players (that's Jimenez and Moncada), and two pitchers among the traded for prospects to come through big. A few solid drafts in a row will help also.
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  #66  
Old 07-18-2017, 01:29 PM
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Chez Chez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fungo bat View Post
Rather than projecting a 2020 opening day lineup, I took a different approach. I am all in on the rebuild. But I caution all regarding the bust out rate in the big leagues. Here's my lineup of young, promising Sox prospects, most of them high draft picks of fairly recent vintage, who didn't pan out very well in the big show. Many of you will remember some of these disappointments:

Nyles Nyman, lf
Kenny Williams, cf
Royle Stillman, rf
Kevin Bell, 3b
Mike Caruso, ss
Donnie Hill, 2b
Cotton Nash, 1b
Pete Varney, c
Lorenzo Gray, dh
Scott Ruffcorn, p
Cisco Carlos, p

I hope our current prospects will fair well in MLB, but the fact is a few aren't going to make much of a splash.

Donnie Hill played for 4 years with Oakland before he came to the Sox at age 26. Royle Stillman played 2 years for the Orioles before he came to the Sox at age 26. Lorenzo Gray was an 8th round pick.


But I get your point.
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  #67  
Old 07-18-2017, 02:07 PM
KyWhiSoxFan KyWhiSoxFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
I think it's important for Sox fans to understand and accept that all these prospects are on individual timelines. Some may progress through the system relatively quickly. Some may take longer.

Most of our best hitting prospects - not counting Moncada - are at the A+ level and below (although one could make the case that Jimenez might belong at AA Birmingham right now).

Therefore, while many of the top position player prospects might make the team out of spring training in 2020, that could be a really trying year. In addition, 2021 might be a year when many of them go through sophomore slumps.

I really think we need to wait until 2022 to see if this rebuild project has been successful.

The Sox need to be patient. We need to be patient.
Baseball America's update top Sox prospects are below, along with their ages:
1. Yoan Moncada -- 22
2. Eloy Jimenez -- 20
3. Michael Kopech -- 21
4. Luis Robert -- 19
5. Reynaldo Lopez -- 23
6. Lucas Giolito -- 23
7. Dylan Cease -- 21
8. Jake Burger -- 21
9. Dane Dunning -- 22
10. Alec Hansen -- 22

All these guys are really young and we can't expect Moncada and Jiminez, for example, to be all stars in the big leagues today.

As I noted in a minor league thread, Aaron Judge was drafted in the first round in 2013 and he didn't establish himself in the majors till this year, at age 25. In the minors, he batted .308 in low and high A in 2014 with 17 total HR; in 2015, he batted .255 with 12 total HR in AA and AAA; in 2016, he hit .270 with 20 HR in AAA. Called up to NY in 2016, he hit .179 with 4 HR in 84 AB.

Give these guys time.
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  #68  
Old 07-19-2017, 04:05 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is online now
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I still believe Alex Call will have a place on this team. Fischer too.
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  #69  
Old 07-19-2017, 11:24 AM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
I still believe Alex Call will have a place on this team. Fischer too.
And that is a testament to the prospect depth this team all of a sudden has. Those guys were top OF prospects in the system when they were drafted last year. Now they are after thoughts even though I agree that they still might have some impact as 4th outfielders or replacements in case one of the big name guys gets hurt or doesn't develop as expected.
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  #70  
Old 07-19-2017, 11:25 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
And that is a testament to the prospect depth this team all of a sudden has. Those guys were top OF prospects in the system when they were drafted last year. Now they are after thoughts even though I agree that they still might have some impact as 4th outfielders or replacements in case one of the big name guys gets hurt or doesn't develop as expected.
Also, this takes pressure off of them to be "the guys". OBviously, for some, that's a bad thing. I would rather it be this way than any other.
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  #71  
Old 07-19-2017, 11:48 AM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Can we please get off the Machado insanity I've been reading on twitter?

1) I'd never pay anyone $300+ million
2) Career .330 OBP% and barely crossing .800 OPS line .... Don't care how great the defense is, you don't pay $300 million for that.


At the very least, let's wait and see how his career develops. And how about sticking to what we're doing and see if we can grow our own (Burger).
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  #72  
Old 07-19-2017, 04:17 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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We are very far away from 2020, and I'm sure at least a few of the names mentioned won't work out, however I'm not seeing a leadoff hitter currently. Anderson is a number 9 hitter now, and I don't see his OBP to be good enough in a few years for him to hit at the top. Also don't view Moncada as a leadoff guy, he's a #3 hitter.

Ideas?
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  #73  
Old 07-19-2017, 04:53 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
We are very far away from 2020, and I'm sure at least a few of the names mentioned won't work out, however I'm not seeing a leadoff hitter currently. Anderson is a number 9 hitter now, and I don't see his OBP to be good enough in a few years for him to hit at the top. Also don't view Moncada as a leadoff guy, he's a #3 hitter.

Ideas?
Out of the current players it's Moncada. While I would like to see him in the 3-hole as well I'm ok with him batting lead-off if the other guys are panning out as middle of the order hitters. He has the speed for it and is supposed to have the best hit tool of the bunch. Luis Robert might end up as the #2 hitter with his speed. But I suspect that some of these guys won't pan out and others will get traded for players that fit the profiles we are currently missing... like #1 and #2 hitters. But with Rutherford in house I will modify my previous line-up prediction with something like this:

2B-Moncada
CF-Robert
DH-Abreu or A. Garcia
RF-Jiminez
LF-Rutherford
3B-Burger
1B-Sheets
C-Collins/Skoug
SS-Anderson

And I'm still impressed with the year Adolfo is having and think he has a chance to push the other guys for an OF spot.
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