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  #46  
Old 07-17-2017, 04:47 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Well Hahn was with the organization how long before he became GM? I never heard that he turned down a GM job or was offered one. Williams a couple years ago was in the running supposedly for a big toronto job and nothing ever happened. I think Williams along with Harrelson have always been reinsdorfs mouthpiece and puppets. The cant spend a buck if you only have 50 cent, I have always attributed to reinsdorf, not williams. Sorry I rambled on, Im just not in a good mood lately because its a long time ahead that I will have meaning Sox baseball to watch ahead and its all on ownership. Finally, Yes I believe they are both being controlled.
I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. I recall Hahn being up for GM jobs a few years ago as a top candidate and basically withdrawing because the Sox told him he'd get the job here. I could be wrong, but that's my recollection.

Now as for KW, I definitely remember that Toronto President gig begin rumored. Which befuddled me, outside of 2005 (which admittedly is a big exception), his tenure as GM was pretty universally a failure across the org - piss-poor farm system, no upper-end position player prospects either here or traded that amounted to much of anything, and a dearth of playoff appearances at the major league level. (Hahn appears to be turning that around based on changes in scouting/drafting and then obviously the recent trades, but the jury is still out on that.)
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  #47  
Old 07-17-2017, 04:53 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. I recall Hahn being up for GM jobs a few years ago as a top candidate and basically withdrawing because the Sox told him he'd get the job here. I could be wrong, but that's my recollection.

Maybe so but why would he turn down a GM with a good organization to stay with this dysfunctional one? Job security for doing whatever the boss says? I dont know this is fact or not but to me it as possible as the loyalty stuff.
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  #48  
Old 07-17-2017, 04:56 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
Or a Cubs fan. Most of us laughed at the Cubs when they were bottoming out 4-5 years ago, but I don't think a single Cubs fan has any regrets now.
Dan Bernstein would regularly make fun of the Cubs fans that were upset when they were unwatchable and would condescendingly tell them to 'trust the process.' At the time, I thought he was an idiot and that the blind faith placed in Theo's 5-year plan was stupid.

I hate Bernstein but in this instance he was right.

If the Sox turn the corner in '19 or '20, I think it'll be more enjoyable if you hadn't spend the previous 3 years predicting disaster and freaking out about every trade.

Even if it doesn't work, I at least understand and support the plan.
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  #49  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:00 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is online now
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This thread belongs in WTS...
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  #50  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:13 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Rotation:

Rodon
Kopech
Lopez
Adams
Hansen

Bullpen:

CL - Burdi
SU - Cease
MR - Dunning, Fulmer, Giolito

Lineup:

LF Luis Robert
C Zach Collins
1b Seth Beer
2b Moncada
3b Anthony Rendon
RF Jimenez
DH Burger
SS Anderson
CF Engel
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  #51  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:41 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Maybe so but why would he turn down a GM with a good organization to stay with this dysfunctional one? Job security for doing whatever the boss says? I dont know this is fact or not but to me it as possible as the loyalty stuff.
Lots of potential reasons ranging from a thought that once he was "in charge" he could revamp areas he thought were under-resourced, make changes he thought were necessary, and do it his way rather than implementing KW's philosophy to simply not wanting to move his family from Chicago. I can't say what the reason was.

All I'm saying is that it was reported that he was in demand. So it's not like JR was the only guy who thought Hahn would make a good GM and picked him because he was a puppet.

In fact, Hahn used to be an agent. So I would imagine that if he wanted to he could likely return to that, so he'd be less likely to be a guy who stuck around and put up with whatever because he didn't have options. (FWIW, he's also a Kellogg MBA grad with a Harvard JD so again - not like he's some schmo who can't find alternatives.)
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  #52  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:56 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Bob Roarman View Post

They've rebuilt their farm system over one offseason and halfway through this season with the best talent you could've POSSIBLY hoped for if a team were to go this route. Best talent you possibly could've hoped for. From the basement to the top of the league. In less than a year.
.
They had 3 elite players in their primes on favorable contracts to trade. They should have a lot of young talent. And in none of the deals did I see a massive surplus. They did fine - no complaints. But I didn't see anything super special.
Perhaps the question should be how could a team with 3 elite players not even approach .500?
Even if Hahn is what people believe he is, his entire career has been with this org. and Williams is still heavily involved.
That the same front office remains in place is what gives me great pause in all of this.

Last edited by Tragg; 07-17-2017 at 06:24 PM.
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  #53  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:42 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Keep in mind that JR's emphasis on loyalty/patience is likely driven/exacerbated by his experiences earlier in his ownership tenure, specifically firing Tony LaRussa, who turned out to be an excellent manager and who JR regrets firing. They also didn't find ways to keep Jeff Torborg, Terry Francona, and Dave Dombrowski, and JR probably regrets allowing them to leave the organization as well. Also, he hasn't fired a Sox GM since Larry Himes after the 1990 season.

There is no point to crying over spilled milk. For better or worse, JR has entrusted the milk cleanup to KW and Hahn.
Good post, certainly something to consider.

By the way it was Ron Schueler who forced out Torborg. (Just spoke with him for an hour Saturday by the way). He told me in my interview with him in detail what happened and how he never wanted to go to the Mets.

He said his wife still calls that team the Mess. LOL

There have also been numerous books that have published comments on how JR absolutely hates to fire people, it makes him physically ill. I remember reading Jerry Krause talking about that.
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  #54  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:44 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Go up to an Astros fan and ask them if they give a poop about their team losing 107 games in 2012, 111 games in 2013 and 92 games in 2014...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
Or a Cubs fan. Most of us laughed at the Cubs when they were bottoming out 4-5 years ago, but I don't think a single Cubs fan has any regrets now.
Too bad we can't ask the "old fart" Astro and Cub fans who didn't live long enough to see the fruits of a rebuild.
Some of us "old farts' on this site may not be around in 3 to 5 yrs.
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  #55  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:06 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Go up to an Astros fan and ask them if they give a poop about their team losing 107 games in 2012, 111 games in 2013 and 92 games in 2014...
The Astros had to do that in order to acquire talent...they didn't have much to trade.
The Sox now have the talent. If they are waiting for Correa they may wait a decade. In the meantime, it would be nice to use the draft choices they do have to draft a Springer et al.
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  #56  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:28 PM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Good post, certainly something to consider.

By the way it was Ron Schueler who forced out Torborg. (Just spoke with him for an hour Saturday by the way). He told me in my interview with him in detail what happened and how he never wanted to go to the Mets.

He said his wife still calls that team the Mess. LOL

There have also been numerous books that have published comments on how JR absolutely hates to fire people, it makes him physically ill. I remember reading Jerry Krause talking about that.
I always found it interesting that JR fired Larry Himes. He more than anybody else was responsible for the success of the White Sox in the 90s. His drafts and trades were great. Yet, JR fired him. Hahn has been here for 5 years and has yet to have any success here.
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  #57  
Old 07-17-2017, 09:12 PM
fungo bat fungo bat is offline
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Rather than projecting a 2020 opening day lineup, I took a different approach. I am all in on the rebuild. But I caution all regarding the bust out rate in the big leagues. Here's my lineup of young, promising Sox prospects, most of them high draft picks of fairly recent vintage, who didn't pan out very well in the big show. Many of you will remember some of these disappointments:

Nyles Nyman, lf
Kenny Williams, cf
Royle Stillman, rf
Kevin Bell, 3b
Mike Caruso, ss
Donnie Hill, 2b
Cotton Nash, 1b
Pete Varney, c
Lorenzo Gray, dh
Scott Ruffcorn, p
Cisco Carlos, p

I hope our current prospects will fair well in MLB, but the fact is a few aren't going to make much of a splash.

Last edited by fungo bat; 07-17-2017 at 09:56 PM.
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  #58  
Old 07-18-2017, 12:42 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Paulwny View Post
Too bad we can't ask the "old fart" Astro and Cub fans who didn't live long enough to see the fruits of a rebuild.
Some of us "old farts' on this site may not be around in 3 to 5 yrs.
Life is a crapshoot and it isn't fair but that's reality. I'll be 62 next month and thought the same thing you posted but I was around for 2005 and this is the best shot the franchise has to become relevant again.

If I go before it succeeds... c'est la vie.
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  #59  
Old 07-18-2017, 12:47 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
I always found it interesting that JR fired Larry Himes. He more than anybody else was responsible for the success of the White Sox in the 90s. His drafts and trades were great. Yet, JR fired him. Hahn has been here for 5 years and has yet to have any success here.
The fact is Larry Himes cannot get along with anybody. You can hardly find anybody in the Sox organization that wasn’t happy when Larry Himes left.”--Jerry Reinsdorf to Chet Coppock.
Not all of them as Jeff Torborg told me, Himes turned down the Yankees offer of Bernie Williams and Hal Morris for Eric King and Steve Lyons.
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  #60  
Old 07-18-2017, 12:50 AM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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I'm not really sure why I keep seeing people worried about the pitching. There is a ton of potential there.

Five out of Rodon, Kopech, Hansen, Giolito, Lopez, dunning, Adams and Cease? I'll take my chances Sox developing that.
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