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  #16  
Old 06-03-2018, 08:34 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
It was also in the Trib Sox column this morning.
Brian:

Since everything now at the Tribune is behind a pay wall and since they decided to drop a Sox beat reporter, I basically have ignored them. Don't even scan the headlines at their web site anymore.

Not going to give any clicks or reward those clowns.
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  #17  
Old 06-04-2018, 03:59 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Brian:

Since everything now at the Tribune is behind a pay wall and since they decided to drop a Sox beat reporter, I basically have ignored them. Don't even scan the headlines at their web site anymore.

Not going to give any clicks or reward those clowns.

Please stop insulting clowns.
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  #18  
Old 06-04-2018, 06:58 AM
kobo kobo is online now
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
I though Jose' got more than 68 million?

Regarding free agency, it starts this off season for this organization, already you can clearly see areas that need to be improved upon.

I'm still saying 2020 maybe 2021 but if they are this awful next year (with some of the kids on the big league roster) they are going to lose a significant portion of the fan base that has been supporting the rebuild.

They'll want to at least see some progress on the field.
Then those fans are dumb. We aren't even a full calendar year away from the Quintana trade. This rebuild is still in its infancy. The Sox will be bad again next year. They shouldn't be as bad as they have been this year, but they will still be bad. To think otherwise is foolish and shows a lack of understanding in how long this process takes.
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  #19  
Old 06-04-2018, 07:31 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Then those fans are dumb. We aren't even a full calendar year away from the Quintana trade. This rebuild is still in its infancy. The Sox will be bad again next year. They shouldn't be as bad as they have been this year, but they will still be bad. To think otherwise is foolish and shows a lack of understanding in how long this process takes.
I’ve been ambivalent about the rebuild, but I’ve always thought the anti-rebuild crowd had a legitimate concern about whether Sox fans in general were prepared to tough it out.
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  #20  
Old 06-04-2018, 08:20 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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I’ve been ambivalent about the rebuild, but I’ve always thought the anti-rebuild crowd had a legitimate concern about whether Sox fans in general were prepared to tough it out.
They are still better to crash and burn it and take the 2-3 years of being horrible so they are still relatively in people's minds when they start to improve again than to trickle slowly down into irrelevancy as they were on course to do with the old system.

Edit: and the fans will return. These things are always cyclical. It's relative for each team obviously, but bad years see reduced attendance and good ones the fans come out more. Thus has it ever been; thus will it ever be.
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  #21  
Old 06-04-2018, 08:35 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Edit: and the fans will return. These things are always cyclical. It's relative for each team obviously, but bad years see reduced attendance and good ones the fans come out more. Thus has it ever been; thus will it ever be.

So true, to think otherwise is foolish.


It's too bad that the Chicago media has pounded attendance as a relevant "issue" into Chicago fan collective's brain. Twenty years ago I don't think I would have heard, "We have more fans than you" as a talking point. Now, it seems to be more important than wins and losses to a large group of "fans".
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  #22  
Old 06-04-2018, 09:54 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
Then those fans are dumb. We aren't even a full calendar year away from the Quintana trade. This rebuild is still in its infancy. The Sox will be bad again next year. They shouldn't be as bad as they have been this year, but they will still be bad. To think otherwise is foolish and shows a lack of understanding in how long this process takes.
The rebuild is approaching its two year mark. It didn't get going hot and heavy until December of 2016, but it started in July, after the disaster that was June. If significant progress isn't made next year, then they really need to get a new group of professionals into the front office to rescue it. By progress, I don't mean a winning team. More in the 70-75 win range built on young players (not going out early and getting veterans). But the Sox can't have an incessant rolling timetable.
The Astros and Cubs had 3 years each of suckage, once they started rebuilding. Brewers had 2. This is year 2 for the Sox.
The Sox should still win in the low-mid 60s this season if they can get some of these guys back off of the DL. On the other hand, they still need to trade most of these veterans, so that might pull them back down.

Last edited by Tragg; 06-04-2018 at 09:59 AM.
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  #23  
Old 06-04-2018, 10:05 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
The rebuild is approaching its two year mark. It didn't get going hot and heavy until December of 2016, but it started in July, after the disaster that was June. If significant progress isn't made next year, then they really need to get a new group of professionals into the front office to rescue it. By progress, I don't mean a winning team. More in the 70-75 win range built on young players (not going out early and getting veterans). But the Sox can't have an incessant rolling timetable.
The Astros and Cubs had 3 years each of suckage, once they started rebuilding. Brewers had 2. This is year 2 for the Sox.
The Sox should still win in the low 60s if they can get some of these guys back off of the DL. On the other hand, they still need to trade most of these veterans, so that might pull them back down.
The rebuild didn't begin until they traded Sale. Even so, I would not measure the progress of minor league prospects/recent call ups by number of major league wins.

By the way, Houston's rebuild began in December 2010 and they didn't have a winning season until 2015. Not that it (or any other team's timeline) should have any bearing on our evaluation of the Sox rebuild.
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  #24  
Old 06-04-2018, 10:41 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
By progress I don't mean a winning team. More in the 70-75 win range built on young players (not going out early and getting veterans). But the Sox can't have an incessant rolling timetable.
This is EXACTLY what I mean in my comment about the fan base next season.

They have go to show something moving forward, that things are getting better, they can not afford to start next year like they did this past April / May.
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  #25  
Old 06-04-2018, 10:57 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
This is EXACTLY what I mean in my comment about the fan base next season.

They have go to show something moving forward, that things are getting better, they can not afford to start next year like they did this past April / May.
Sure they can. People will come back when the winning starts. I think this entire "You're losing more people" thing is a fallacy.
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  #26  
Old 06-04-2018, 11:04 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
The rebuild didn't begin until they traded Sale. Even so, I would not measure the progress of minor league prospects/recent call ups by number of major league wins.

By the way, Houston's rebuild began in December 2010 and they didn't have a winning season until 2015. Not that it (or any other team's timeline) should have any bearing on our evaluation of the Sox rebuild.
Like the Sox, the Astros had several bad years prior to their rebuild.
Luhnow was hired in December 2011. They were terrible in 2012, 2013, and 2014 (improving 19 games from 2013). They made the playoffs in 2015.
The Sox started rebuilding in July 2016. On the Astros timetable, the Sox would suck in 2017, 2018 and 2019, and make the playoffs in 2020. And that even gives the Sox an extra 1/2 year or so over the Astros.
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  #27  
Old 06-04-2018, 11:27 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Like the Sox, the Astros had several bad years prior to their rebuild.
Luhnow was hired in December 2011. They were terrible in 2012, 2013, and 2014 (improving 19 games from 2013). They made the playoffs in 2015.
The Sox started rebuilding in July 2016. On the Astros timetable, the Sox would suck in 2017, 2018 and 2019, and make the playoffs in 2020. And that even gives the Sox an extra 1/2 year or so over the Astros.
Again, it is irrelevant how long Houston took to get to a winning season after starting their rebuild in December 2010. That they proceeded to win 56, then 55, then 51 games immediately after starting their rebuild has no bearing whatsoever on what the Sox should do.

Just curious, why are you moving the Sox timeline back and the Houston timeline forward as if it makes any difference?
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  #28  
Old 06-04-2018, 11:45 AM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Sure they can. People will come back when the winning starts. I think this entire "You're losing more people" thing is a fallacy.
The Blackhawks are a prime example of this. They were far more irrelevant than the Sox are today. Once they started winning, the fans flocked back and many new fans joined in. And, how many of those people didn't even know what the blue line was??
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  #29  
Old 06-04-2018, 12:10 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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The Blackhawks are a prime example of this. They were far more irrelevant than the Sox are today. Once they started winning, the fans flocked back and many new fans joined in. And, how many of those people didn't even know what the blue line was??
100 percent. That team - hell, the whole sport - was *completely* irrelevant in this town, and the fanbase was aging and not drawing in youth. Then, sustained winning, and bang - look what happened.
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  #30  
Old 06-04-2018, 12:13 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Just curious, why are you moving the Sox timeline back and the Houston timeline forward as if it makes any difference?
Yes, and if the Sox still suck in 2020 and miss this timeline, what will any of you saying they need to succeed by 2020 actually *do* aside from bang harder on your keyboard?
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