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  #151  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:35 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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It is fascinating to read the comments in this thread.

Color me 100% skeptical the Sox will be getting a new stadium when their lease expires.

Unless a new owner is willing to pay for it themselves (very, very, VERY rare) it isn't happening.

Period.

End of discussion.

They'll remain in a stadium that has been well maintained and is about 40 years old.

Nothing wrong with that.

Conspiracy theories aside () there isn't a "plot" to "get" the White Sox despite what some continue to believe.

The stadium in the mid 60's never got off the ground because Mayor Daley wanted the Sox and Bears to play in a new stadium OUT IN LAKE MICHIGAN accessed by a causeway. True story. Environmentalists went nuts and delayed any or all talk about something like that happening. By the time that got sorted out the ship had sailed in the South Loop.

Then as posted you had the Bears torpedoing the plan in the mid 80's.

It is what it is with this franchise sometimes things happen beyond your control.

I repeat the bottom line in my opinion...CONSISTENTLY win and produce playoff bound teams once more than every seven to 10 years and you can play in a ****house and it won't matter.
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  #152  
Old 08-31-2017, 01:45 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
It is fascinating to read the comments in this thread.

Color me 100% skeptical the Sox will be getting a new stadium when their lease expires.

Unless a new owner is willing to pay for it themselves (very, very, VERY rare) it isn't happening.

Period.

End of discussion.

They'll remain in a stadium that has been well maintained and is about 40 years old.

Nothing wrong with that.

Conspiracy theories aside () there isn't a "plot" to "get" the White Sox despite what some continue to believe.

The stadium in the mid 60's never got off the ground because Mayor Daley wanted the Sox and Bears to play in a new stadium OUT IN LAKE MICHIGAN accessed by a causeway. True story. Environmentalists went nuts and delayed any or all talk about something like that happening. By the time that got sorted out the ship had sailed in the South Loop.

Then as posted you had the Bears torpedoing the plan in the mid 80's.

It is what it is with this franchise sometimes things happen beyond your control.

I repeat the bottom line in my opinion...CONSISTENTLY win and produce playoff bound teams once more than every seven to 10 years and you can play in a ****house and it won't matter.
Agree with everything you say except that the Sox even if they win will never draw as much as they could with a better location. This a franchise in a major market that has never hit the 3 million mark, came close twice in 1991 and again in 2006. The mindset of many residents in the metro area and of tourists that visit the city is that Sox Park is in a bad area, 99% of Sox fans know that that is a false assumption but try explaining that to the rest of the non-believers. I've been hearing this since the early 50s and it still continues. I have a lot of friends here in Florida who have visited Chicago and took in a game at Wrigley, but not Sox Park. If I was a tourist I would want to take in a game at both.
That being said and as I stated earlier in the thread, the only way the Sox move from where they are is if a new owner finances the whole deal or the Sox move to another city.
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  #153  
Old 08-31-2017, 02:21 PM
soxnut67 soxnut67 is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Agree with everything you say except that the Sox even if they win will never draw as much as they could with a better location. This a franchise in a major market that has never hit the 3 million mark, came close twice in 1991 and again in 2006. The mindset of many residents in the metro area and of tourists that visit the city is that Sox Park is in a bad area, 99% of Sox fans know that that is a false assumption but try explaining that to the rest of the non-believers. I've been hearing this since the early 50s and it still continues. I have a lot of friends here in Florida who have visited Chicago and took in a game at Wrigley, but not Sox Park. If I was a tourist I would want to take in a game at both.
That being said and as I stated earlier in the thread, the only way the Sox move from where they are is if a new owner finances the whole deal or the Sox move to another city.
Exactly, this is the reality. Chicago is a destination city, and the Sox will never be able take advantage of that in their current location, unless something extraordinary happens.
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  #154  
Old 08-31-2017, 02:45 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I don't see a new stadium at a new location being built- BUT, I could see some significant renovations/enhancements being made- adding a home run porch/upper deck in either LF or RF, expanding the center field concourse (or even tearing down/rebuilding) to make it wider, add space for a Hall of Fame, replace the "tinker toy" facade and billboards with more of an Old Comiskey arches look, etc.

The neighborhood seems to be up and coming a bit- it will never be Wrigleyville- but it can't be more of an asset vs. the current state, and the location still provides good access to public transit and the freeway.
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  #155  
Old 08-31-2017, 05:13 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by soxnut67 View Post
Exactly, this is the reality. Chicago is a destination city, and the Sox will never be able take advantage of that in their current location, unless something extraordinary happens.
I know I'm hammering away at a point that's already been made but: I think winning will cure all of the Sox problems. I think that Bridgeport is a neighborhood that is becoming more hip, for better or worse, and it is also a pretty easily accessible location, especially from the Loop for night games during the week.
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  #156  
Old 08-31-2017, 05:51 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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History Lesson: Former White Sox owner Art Allyn wanted to build a new White Sox stadium at Roosevelt + Clark in 1967. This would have been done with private financing. There is a article about it in the 1967 White Sox Program/Fall edition, page 13. Believe it or not the City of Chicago wouldn't give him the permits to have it built. Read into that anyway you want. That's when Allyn actually considered moving the team to Milwaukee. Imagine a team owner wanting to build a stadium with his own funding and the city not willing to give him the permits to build it.
I cannot even imagine how awful the stadium design would have been if the Sox built there in the late 1960s. Think Three Rivers, Riverfront, Fulton County, Busch, Veterans.
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  #157  
Old 08-31-2017, 06:03 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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I cannot even imagine how awful the stadium design would have been if the Sox built there in the late 1960s. Think Three Rivers, Riverfront, Fulton County, Busch, Veterans.
Everybody thought they were pretty neat back then but they were so bad. I'd say the best of the lot was Busch, had a little character with the roof design based on the Arch, it also had bleachers in right and left center with the scoreboards above them, it was a little less obnoxious than the others you mentioned. PS You left out Shea which at least had some views of the parking lots as it wasn't completely enclosed. I sat in the UD at a game at Shea (free general admission USAF) in 1967 and it was further from the action than our park but less steep.

Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 08-31-2017 at 06:15 PM.
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  #158  
Old 08-31-2017, 06:30 PM
eriqjaffe eriqjaffe is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
I cannot even imagine how awful the stadium design would have been if the Sox built there in the late 1960s. Think Three Rivers, Riverfront, Fulton County, Busch, Veterans.
And it would have been a privately-financed park? I shudder to think, since it's not like the Allyns were flush with cash.
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  #159  
Old 08-31-2017, 06:57 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I know I'm hammering away at a point that's already been made but: I think winning will cure all of the Sox problems. I think that Bridgeport is a neighborhood that is becoming more hip, for better or worse, and it is also a pretty easily accessible location, especially from the Loop for night games during the week.
I believe you are on to something. There are improvements that could be made. The movement of traffic could be better and the Red Line through scheduling and safety could be more of an asset.
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  #160  
Old 09-01-2017, 10:12 AM
SoxandtheCityTee SoxandtheCityTee is online now
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
The neighborhood seems to be up and coming a bit- it will never be Wrigleyville- but it can't be more of an asset vs. the current state, and the location still provides good access to public transit and the freeway.
Thank God for that. Clark Street is becoming unrecognizable -- looks like a theme park.
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  #161  
Old 09-01-2017, 10:41 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
I cannot even imagine how awful the stadium design would have been if the Sox built there in the late 1960s. Think Three Rivers, Riverfront, Fulton County, Busch, Veterans.
The design might have been like the ones you just mentioned but at least it would not have had the miserable upper deck we have now. I would have rather had that stadium design in that South Loop location instead of what we have now.
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  #162  
Old 09-01-2017, 11:07 AM
soxnut67 soxnut67 is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxandtheCityTee View Post
Thank God for that. Clark Street is becoming unrecognizable -- looks like a theme park.
I have come to think theme park is a good thing now. In today's baseball landscape, ballparks need to be part of some type of entertainment district, because. basically, that's what baseball is..entertainment.

The casual baseball observer is where things need to go. You're not going to get 40,000 + die-hards, unfortunately. Whatever income they can get, the better. As long as it goes into creating a winning product on the field.
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  #163  
Old 09-01-2017, 12:48 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Questions:

1. Do many Sox fans use the Metra 35th/Lou Jones Station to go to games? Would more frequent or different service patterns, like a later train after night games, or more frequent weekend trains, increase use of the Metra/Rock Island to get to games?

2. Would a Metra station on the other side of the park, where the Metra/Southwest trains run on their way to Union Station, induce more fans from the Southwest suburbs the line serves, to attend games? Would such a station - if the train times were convenient to game times - make it easier for fans that live near the other lines that terminate at Union Station to take Metra to games?

3. At one time Metra was discussing moving that part of the Southwest line to the Rock Island tracks to terminate at LaSalle Street instead of Union. If so, and if train times were convenient to game times, would more fans from the Southwest suburbs the line serves, take the train to games?

The point is that the Sox play within walking distance of two CTA El lines, and one Metra line, and easily could be served by a second nearby Metra line. There aren't many locations other than downtown that are as close to so many lines as where they are now.
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  #164  
Old 09-01-2017, 12:56 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Questions:

1. Do many Sox fans use the Metra 35th/Lou Jones Station to go to games? Would more frequent or different service patterns, like a later train after night games, or more frequent weekend trains, increase use of the Metra/Rock Island to get to games?

2. Would a Metra station on the other side of the park, where the Metra/Southwest trains run on their way to Union Station, induce more fans from the Southwest suburbs the line serves, to attend games? Would such a station - if the train times were convenient to game times - make it easier for fans that live near the other lines that terminate at Union Station to take Metra to games?

3. At one time Metra was discussing moving that part of the Southwest line to the Rock Island tracks to terminate at LaSalle Street instead of Union. If so, and if train times were convenient to game times, would more fans from the Southwest suburbs the line serves, take the train to games?

The point is that the Sox play within walking distance of two CTA El lines, and one Metra line, and easily could be served by a second nearby Metra line. There aren't many locations other than downtown that are as close to so many lines as where they are now.
The Metra station at 35th opened at the start of the 2009 season, the beginning of our current age of darkness, so I don't think it has gotten as much use as Metra thought when it first opened.
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  #165  
Old 09-01-2017, 02:15 PM
mrfourni mrfourni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Questions:

1. Do many Sox fans use the Metra 35th/Lou Jones Station to go to games? Would more frequent or different service patterns, like a later train after night games, or more frequent weekend trains, increase use of the Metra/Rock Island to get to games?

2. Would a Metra station on the other side of the park, where the Metra/Southwest trains run on their way to Union Station, induce more fans from the Southwest suburbs the line serves, to attend games? Would such a station - if the train times were convenient to game times - make it easier for fans that live near the other lines that terminate at Union Station to take Metra to games?

3. At one time Metra was discussing moving that part of the Southwest line to the Rock Island tracks to terminate at LaSalle Street instead of Union. If so, and if train times were convenient to game times, would more fans from the Southwest suburbs the line serves, take the train to games?

The point is that the Sox play within walking distance of two CTA El lines, and one Metra line, and easily could be served by a second nearby Metra line. There aren't many locations other than downtown that are as close to so many lines as where they are now.
I use the Rock Island line when I'm going to a game after work. When it first opened, they ran a special train 1/2 hour after the conclusion of each game. They eliminated that after year one because of low ridership. Now you're stuck with the regular train schedule. Problem with that on weeknights is your options are either 9:51 (have to leave early) or 11:21 (about an hour after final out). Because of that, not many people take the Metra. I wish Metra would consider pushing back the train that leaves LaSalle Street station until 10:00 pm (maybe just during the summer) to accommodate Sox fans, but I'm not sure what that would entail.

I think the Southwest service will eventually move over to the Rock Island tracks. It's been a priority of the congressman (Lipinski) for years. Because of that, and because Metra doesn't own the tracks that the SW line runs on, there likely won't be an additional station built for the SW line.
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