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  #61  
Old 06-13-2019, 05:45 PM
Dick Allen Dick Allen is offline
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I guess the main thing for me is, would I wear that t-shirt or not? My answer would be no, I’d feel a little embarrassed by it. Nothing against the music, nothing against the White Sox, I just wouldn’t wear it.
  #62  
Old 06-14-2019, 12:13 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan H View Post

Disco Demolition is a symbol of one thing: During the '70's White Sox ownership had no resources to run a major league baseball franchise. So, they tried a promotion to get people in the park and it truly blew up in their faces. It was the low point in Bill Veeck's career and the low point in a decade where the team had seven losing seasons and two last-place finishes.

Yes, it is part of history. No, it isn't anything to celebrate.
This
I'm in that 50-70 age group. I disliked disco music at the time....and I still think a lot of it sucks; but artists like Madonna took disco music, improved it 1000% and became icons.
  #63  
Old 06-14-2019, 11:11 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan H View Post

Disco Demolition is a symbol of one thing: During the '70's White Sox ownership had no resources to run a major league baseball franchise. So, they tried a promotion to get people in the park and it truly blew up in their faces. It was the low point in Bill Veeck's career and the low point in a decade where the team had seven losing seasons and two last-place finishes.
I think there were a number of somewhat embarrassing instances for this franchise from the late 60's into the 70's.

Playing "home" games at County Stadium in Milwaukee
Inability to find a legit radio station to broadcast games in 1971 (ended up on a small AM station out of LaGrange)
Disco Demolition

But one that I really remember was in 1979/80 Comiskey Park hosted one of the "World Series of Rock" type concerts (all day, 4-5 bands)- it rained throughout the concert- so pretty much destroyed the field. For their next home game- at least half the outfield was just dirt/sand- NO grass. I can remember Claudell Washington standing out in RF with not a single blade of grass in sight- for me, that was more embarrassing than a promotion that got out of hand.
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  #64  
Old 06-14-2019, 11:21 AM
Railsplitter Railsplitter is offline
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I was 14 at the time, and cared about as much for disco as I did the north end of southbound rat. Remember, back then WMAQ played Country & Western music between Sox games. I like a good story, and back then, any C&W song worth its salt could tell you one in about three minutes.

Some people liked disco. Some people didn't like it. Some didn't care one way or another. The same holds true for any other genre or entertainer.


Didn't like disco, Mr Dahl? You didn't have to listen to it.
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  #65  
Old 06-14-2019, 12:03 PM
SaltyPretzel SaltyPretzel is offline
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Originally Posted by PatK View Post
Disco Demolition was a huge moment in pop culture history. It's been cited as one of the reasons for the death of disco.


It's not homophobic, or racist in any way. If anything, it was protesting the fact that the whole disco scene wasn't inclusive- you had to dress a certain way, have a certain look, listen to the music, and have an ability to dance. And just like any flavor of the week, it was rammed down people's throats.


The Disco Sucks movement was a backlash against a non-inclusive scene that many people didn't fit into. There's some irony in the fact that it's being protested for being non-inclusive.


It also is reinforcing the fact that we are living in a time where people look to be victimized by anything they can think of.


I guarantee that those protesting know nothing of the history of it, or Steve Dahl's motivations behind it. It wasn't anti-gay or racist.


Social media is going to be the downfall of society. If the Sox cancel this promotion, I'm done with them.
His parody song supports what you're saying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LAApU-QHfI
  #66  
Old 06-16-2019, 01:16 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I think there were a number of somewhat embarrassing instances for this franchise from the late 60's into the 70's.

Playing "home" games at County Stadium in Milwaukee
Inability to find a legit radio station to broadcast games in 1971 (ended up on a small AM station out of LaGrange)
Disco Demolition

But one that I really remember was in 1979/80 Comiskey Park hosted one of the "World Series of Rock" type concerts (all day, 4-5 bands)- it rained throughout the concert- so pretty much destroyed the field. For their next home game- at least half the outfield was just dirt/sand- NO grass. I can remember Claudell Washington standing out in RF with not a single blade of grass in sight- for me, that was more embarrassing than a promotion that got out of hand.
You cite things that were done because the team lacked resources. Disco Demotion wasn't about the team lacking resources. It was about the ownership lacking resources and being embarrassingly incompetent.

Playing nine regular season games (in each of the two seasons) in Milwaukee wasn't so different than the Royals playing a game in Omaha and a lot more different than the Expos playing more than 20 regular season games in Puerto Rico. At a time when the White Sox were the wildly unpopular team in the city playing in a wildly unpopular neighborhood, they turned nine games into events. Especially in a season of assassinations postponing games and riots pre-empting games from the radio, the Milwaukee games worked out nicely for the team. They never played an entire series in Milwaukee. The only problem was the perception that the team was going to move 90 miles north.

Being dropped by WMAQ after the 1970 season wasn't the idea of White Sox management. Considering no radio station wanted to buy the rights to their games, they did pretty well to patch together a network of FM stations to cover the area and scored Harry Caray, who has spent a year exiled in Oakland after the Cardinals fired him. Bill Veeck renting the ballpark out for rock concerts when the team was out of town brought in revenue. I've been to games in Oakland where the field was torn up and the football grid was still visible.

All of this is different than running a promotion that involved blowing up records on the field between games of a doubleheader. It was an incendiary promotion both figuratively and literally, and not the way that people use literally to mean figuratively. The idea was to bring people out to the park because of the passion behind the issue, but that passion was the reason the idea of such a promotion should have been shouted down. Approaching the event, when it was obvious there was going to be trouble, the team went through with it. Wearing shorts was fun bad. Disco Demolition was stupid, bordering on criminal bad.

I'm not a disco fan. I tell people I resent the fact that disco was popular during my college years, but I hate country music even more. Attacking country music in this country can get one in a lot more trouble on social media than attacking disco. It's not being too sensitive if you're in the majority. As much as I would have supported blowing up country records, I wouldn't demean the people attacking the celebration of the anniversary of such a thing and I wouldn't want the anniversary of such a baseball promotion.

Baseball promotions, like the summer festivals in Milwaukee and the promotions the Giants run all summer, are supposed to be inclusive. You would have to be an incompetent baseball executive not to understand that. Worse than Ten-Cent Beer Night in Cleveland, where cheap beer is something presumably everybody likes cheap beer, Disco Demolition was designed not to be inclusive, but to bring people together in opposition to something else. It was a divisive promotion put on by management that, in addition to not having resources, didn't know what they were doing.

It's hard enough to be a White Sox fan in California without the team making me look like an idiot by celebrating the anniversary of Disco Demolition.
  #67  
Old 06-16-2019, 05:24 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
You cite things that were done because the team lacked resources. Disco Demotion wasn't about the team lacking resources. It was about the ownership lacking resources and being embarrassingly incompetent.

Playing nine regular season games (in each of the two seasons) in Milwaukee wasn't so different than the Royals playing a game in Omaha and a lot more different than the Expos playing more than 20 regular season games in Puerto Rico. At a time when the White Sox were the wildly unpopular team in the city playing in a wildly unpopular neighborhood, they turned nine games into events. Especially in a season of assassinations postponing games and riots pre-empting games from the radio, the Milwaukee games worked out nicely for the team. They never played an entire series in Milwaukee. The only problem was the perception that the team was going to move 90 miles north.

Being dropped by WMAQ after the 1970 season wasn't the idea of White Sox management. Considering no radio station wanted to buy the rights to their games, they did pretty well to patch together a network of FM stations to cover the area and scored Harry Caray, who has spent a year exiled in Oakland after the Cardinals fired him. Bill Veeck renting the ballpark out for rock concerts when the team was out of town brought in revenue. I've been to games in Oakland where the field was torn up and the football grid was still visible.

All of this is different than running a promotion that involved blowing up records on the field between games of a doubleheader. It was an incendiary promotion both figuratively and literally, and not the way that people use literally to mean figuratively. The idea was to bring people out to the park because of the passion behind the issue, but that passion was the reason the idea of such a promotion should have been shouted down. Approaching the event, when it was obvious there was going to be trouble, the team went through with it. Wearing shorts was fun bad. Disco Demolition was stupid, bordering on criminal bad.

I'm not a disco fan. I tell people I resent the fact that disco was popular during my college years, but I hate country music even more. Attacking country music in this country can get one in a lot more trouble on social media than attacking disco. It's not being too sensitive if you're in the majority. As much as I would have supported blowing up country records, I wouldn't demean the people attacking the celebration of the anniversary of such a thing and I wouldn't want the anniversary of such a baseball promotion.

Baseball promotions, like the summer festivals in Milwaukee and the promotions the Giants run all summer, are supposed to be inclusive. You would have to be an incompetent baseball executive not to understand that. Worse than Ten-Cent Beer Night in Cleveland, where cheap beer is something presumably everybody likes cheap beer, Disco Demolition was designed not to be inclusive, but to bring people together in opposition to something else. It was a divisive promotion put on by management that, in addition to not having resources, didn't know what they were doing.

It's hard enough to be a White Sox fan in California without the team making me look like an idiot by celebrating the anniversary of Disco Demolition.

There is a lot here and I will not attempt to touch it all. I remember a certain giveaway at a Blackhawks game where packets of team cards were given out to the fans. Where do you think most of those packets ended up by the end of the game? Want to guess how many promotions the Hawks ran after that horrible decision? (Remember that the next time tells you the Blackhawks fans are the best around.)

First off, blame 1979 on the blizzard.



Negativity is draining: If I do not care for something or someone I just ignore it/them.


It's not being too sensitive if you're in the majority.

I am sure I am taking this statement out of context. Is that correct?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
It's hard enough to be a White Sox fan in California without the team making me look like an idiot by celebrating the anniversary of Disco Demolition.
Two questions:
Why is it hard being a White Sox fan in California?
How is it possible for any organization make a private citizen look like an idiot?
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  #68  
Old 06-16-2019, 08:05 AM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
You cite things that were done because the team lacked resources. Disco Demotion wasn't about the team lacking resources. It was about the ownership lacking resources and being embarrassingly incompetent.

Playing nine regular season games (in each of the two seasons) in Milwaukee wasn't so different than the Royals playing a game in Omaha and a lot more different than the Expos playing more than 20 regular season games in Puerto Rico. At a time when the White Sox were the wildly unpopular team in the city playing in a wildly unpopular neighborhood, they turned nine games into events. Especially in a season of assassinations postponing games and riots pre-empting games from the radio, the Milwaukee games worked out nicely for the team. They never played an entire series in Milwaukee. The only problem was the perception that the team was going to move 90 miles north.

Being dropped by WMAQ after the 1970 season wasn't the idea of White Sox management. Considering no radio station wanted to buy the rights to their games, they did pretty well to patch together a network of FM stations to cover the area and scored Harry Caray, who has spent a year exiled in Oakland after the Cardinals fired him. Bill Veeck renting the ballpark out for rock concerts when the team was out of town brought in revenue. I've been to games in Oakland where the field was torn up and the football grid was still visible.

All of this is different than running a promotion that involved blowing up records on the field between games of a doubleheader. It was an incendiary promotion both figuratively and literally, and not the way that people use literally to mean figuratively. The idea was to bring people out to the park because of the passion behind the issue, but that passion was the reason the idea of such a promotion should have been shouted down. Approaching the event, when it was obvious there was going to be trouble, the team went through with it. Wearing shorts was fun bad. Disco Demolition was stupid, bordering on criminal bad.

I'm not a disco fan. I tell people I resent the fact that disco was popular during my college years, but I hate country music even more. Attacking country music in this country can get one in a lot more trouble on social media than attacking disco. It's not being too sensitive if you're in the majority. As much as I would have supported blowing up country records, I wouldn't demean the people attacking the celebration of the anniversary of such a thing and I wouldn't want the anniversary of such a baseball promotion.

Baseball promotions, like the summer festivals in Milwaukee and the promotions the Giants run all summer, are supposed to be inclusive. You would have to be an incompetent baseball executive not to understand that. Worse than Ten-Cent Beer Night in Cleveland, where cheap beer is something presumably everybody likes cheap beer, Disco Demolition was designed not to be inclusive, but to bring people together in opposition to something else. It was a divisive promotion put on by management that, in addition to not having resources, didn't know what they were doing.

It's hard enough to be a White Sox fan in California without the team making me look like an idiot by celebrating the anniversary of Disco Demolition.
What percentage of Californians even know about this promotion? .1? I’d say that high. How does that make your life difficult?
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  #69  
Old 06-16-2019, 09:38 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by XplodingScorbord View Post
What percentage of Californians even know about this promotion? .1? I’d say that high. How does that make your life difficult?
I lived in Minnesota from 1980-1987 which, for the record, started one year after Disco Demolition.

I was up there for school from 80-84 and hung around from 84-87.

I was as obnoxious of a White Sox and Bears fan (this was pre-Timberwolves, so the NBA was not on their radar and the North Stars were pretty good) as you could find. Not once did someone mention Disco Demolition to me as a reason why the White Sox were worthless scum. It was if the event never took place 450 miles to the south.....
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  #70  
Old 06-16-2019, 09:59 AM
DaveIsHere DaveIsHere is offline
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Things like this make me hate Social Media. Creates so much uneeded, never know what is true, false hype in all facets of society. Its a tongue in cheek promotion intended to garner interest...mission accomplished....no hidden social intented messages here.....or is there? LOL
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  #71  
Old 06-16-2019, 10:11 AM
KenBerryGrab KenBerryGrab is offline
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Dahl was kind of a douche, and the Loop was the home of a lot of lunkheads. Not that everyone who listened was one, but these were the days of "just another kid in the crawl." That he engineered this mockery of our ballpark has bugged me more than anything. And WXRT was better anyway. ;)
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  #72  
Old 06-16-2019, 10:26 AM
Vernam Vernam is offline
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It's not a purely revisionist notion. Some made the point in real time, as noted here.

I was at the game w/ my friend Paul (RIP, he passed a few years ago) just to see the Sox for a buck. It was a zoo, not something I'm proud to have been a part of, although the full import didn't hit me until the next day. I never did admit to my old man that I'd been there -- he took any loss hard, much less a forfeit. The notion of celebrating it 40 years later would no doubt offend him on that basis alone.

This thread has been an admirable attempt to reckon with some complex sociology. Just IMO, the Disco Demolition controversy is emblematic of how the absence of intent to offend is no longer an adequate defense against offending. I'm confident in saying the crowd that night was not taking out frustrations against any group of people -- it was way too mindless for that. And I'm just as confident that it's good for us to consider why some perceive it in a different way. If 40,000 people rioted after blowing up a bunch of punk records I loved, the thought that they might have a beef with me personally would almost certainly cross my mind.
  #73  
Old 06-16-2019, 10:56 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
You cite things that were done because the team lacked resources. Disco Demotion wasn't about the team lacking resources. It was about the ownership lacking resources and being embarrassingly incompetent.

Playing nine regular season games (in each of the two seasons) in Milwaukee wasn't so different than the Royals playing a game in Omaha and a lot more different than the Expos playing more than 20 regular season games in Puerto Rico. At a time when the White Sox were the wildly unpopular team in the city playing in a wildly unpopular neighborhood, they turned nine games into events. Especially in a season of assassinations postponing games and riots pre-empting games from the radio, the Milwaukee games worked out nicely for the team. They never played an entire series in Milwaukee. The only problem was the perception that the team was going to move 90 miles north.

Being dropped by WMAQ after the 1970 season wasn't the idea of White Sox management. Considering no radio station wanted to buy the rights to their games, they did pretty well to patch together a network of FM stations to cover the area and scored Harry Caray, who has spent a year exiled in Oakland after the Cardinals fired him. Bill Veeck renting the ballpark out for rock concerts when the team was out of town brought in revenue. I've been to games in Oakland where the field was torn up and the football grid was still visible.

All of this is different than running a promotion that involved blowing up records on the field between games of a doubleheader. It was an incendiary promotion both figuratively and literally, and not the way that people use literally to mean figuratively. The idea was to bring people out to the park because of the passion behind the issue, but that passion was the reason the idea of such a promotion should have been shouted down. Approaching the event, when it was obvious there was going to be trouble, the team went through with it. Wearing shorts was fun bad. Disco Demolition was stupid, bordering on criminal bad.

I'm not a disco fan. I tell people I resent the fact that disco was popular during my college years, but I hate country music even more. Attacking country music in this country can get one in a lot more trouble on social media than attacking disco. It's not being too sensitive if you're in the majority. As much as I would have supported blowing up country records, I wouldn't demean the people attacking the celebration of the anniversary of such a thing and I wouldn't want the anniversary of such a baseball promotion.

Baseball promotions, like the summer festivals in Milwaukee and the promotions the Giants run all summer, are supposed to be inclusive. You would have to be an incompetent baseball executive not to understand that. Worse than Ten-Cent Beer Night in Cleveland, where cheap beer is something presumably everybody likes cheap beer, Disco Demolition was designed not to be inclusive, but to bring people together in opposition to something else. It was a divisive promotion put on by management that, in addition to not having resources, didn't know what they were doing.

It's hard enough to be a White Sox fan in California without the team making me look like an idiot by celebrating the anniversary of Disco Demolition.
Wow- about as hyperbolic as it gets on this topic.

A goofy late 70's Dj for a rock and roll music station started an "anti-disco" bit on his program (along with a parody of a horrible Rod Stewart song- "Do You Think I'm Sexy"). A franchise known for wacky promotions incorporated this bit into a promotion of getting into a game for $0.98 (WLUP- 98 FM) if you brought a a disco record to be "demolished". That promotion exceeded all expectations, the crowd got out of hand and the team had to forfeit a meaningless 2nd game of a twi-night doubleheader.

40 years ago.

Cry me a river- there was no hate involved, I have yet to meet a single fan in the 5 different states I've lived in (IL, MI, WI, VA, CA) who ever gave a ****- other than being interested in hearing my story of what it was like to be there.

People are embarrassed by a promotion 40 years ago that got out of hand- fine. But the rest of this is just so much over reaction, yelling at clouds bull****.

I'm always 100% proud that the White Sox are my team- and that includes the 1919 Black Sox, the astro turf infield, the joke uniforms of the Veeck era, Disco Demolition, and every other unique, quirky aspect of my team.

If I'm embarrassed about anything- it's my owner's role in the 1994 strike and the lost season- but I'm finally getting over that piece of our history.
  #74  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:34 AM
TomC727 TomC727 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
Wow- about as hyperbolic as it gets on this topic.

A goofy late 70's Dj for a rock and roll music station started an "anti-disco" bit on his program (along with a parody of a horrible Rod Stewart song- "Do You Think I'm Sexy"). A franchise known for wacky promotions incorporated this bit into a promotion of getting into a game for $0.98 (WLUP- 98 FM) if you brought a a disco record to be "demolished". That promotion exceeded all expectations, the crowd got out of hand and the team had to forfeit a meaningless 2nd game of a twi-night doubleheader.

40 years ago.

Cry me a river- there was no hate involved, I have yet to meet a single fan in the 5 different states I've lived in (IL, MI, WI, VA, CA) who ever gave a ****- other than being interested in hearing my story of what it was like to be there.

People are embarrassed by a promotion 40 years ago that got out of hand- fine. But the rest of this is just so much over reaction, yelling at clouds bull****.

I'm always 100% proud that the White Sox are my team- and that includes the 1919 Black Sox, the astro turf infield, the joke uniforms of the Veeck era, Disco Demolition, and every other unique, quirky aspect of my team.

If I'm embarrassed about anything- it's my owner's role in the 1994 strike and the lost season- but I'm finally getting over that piece of our history.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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  #75  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:34 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by Vernam View Post
It's not a purely revisionist notion. Some made the point in real time, as noted here.

I was at the game w/ my friend Paul (RIP, he passed a few years ago) just to see the Sox for a buck. It was a zoo, not something I'm proud to have been a part of, although the full import didn't hit me until the next day. I never did admit to my old man that I'd been there -- he took any loss hard, much less a forfeit. The notion of celebrating it 40 years later would no doubt offend him on that basis alone.

This thread has been an admirable attempt to reckon with some complex sociology. Just IMO, the Disco Demolition controversy is emblematic of how the absence of intent to offend is no longer an adequate defense against offending. I'm confident in saying the crowd that night was not taking out frustrations against any group of people -- it was way too mindless for that. And I'm just as confident that it's good for us to consider why some perceive it in a different way. If 40,000 people rioted after blowing up a bunch of punk records I loved, the thought that they might have a beef with me personally would almost certainly cross my mind.
Very, very well said.
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