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  #46  
Old 04-25-2019, 09:18 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
For the record, I personally am NOWHERE near Madrigal is a bust.

I am nervous that if he is a .280 hitter with a .700 ops, he isn't really all that great.
That's a bust.
I have no idea if he'll bust or not. But I do know that if he doesn't improve his power, he'll bust in the majors.
But his lack of Ks give coaches a strong foundation on which to develop him...if they do it right. Kind of like Moncada and his eye.

Last edited by Tragg; 04-25-2019 at 09:24 PM.
  #47  
Old 04-25-2019, 10:01 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Dylan Cease with a terrible outing tonight:
3.2 IP, 6 R, 4 ER, 7 H, 3 BB, 4 K......Ouch. I hope that's a total outlier.

Mostly a good night for Kannapolis on the other hand:
Pilkington: 6.0 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 1 BB, 7 K
Bush: 2 for 3 with a walk and a triple
Walker: 3 for 4 and has his average up to .361

On the rehab front:
Good news: Basabe 2 for 3 with 2 walks
Bad news: Burdi: 1.0 IP, 2 H, 2 R, 1 BB, 2 K
  #48  
Old 04-25-2019, 10:15 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
That's a bust.
I have no idea if he'll bust or not. But I do know that if he doesn't improve his power, he'll bust in the majors.
But his lack of Ks give coaches a strong foundation on which to develop him...if they do it right. Kind of like Moncada and his eye.
Power is the last thing to develop, so that, plus the fact that MLB balls are juiced will be in his favor.
  #49  
Old 04-25-2019, 10:33 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Fair enough - I agree on Yolmer - his most valuable contribution involves a gatorade cooler, and that was great once and stupid every time after.
Agree totally.
  #50  
Old 04-26-2019, 05:30 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
That's a bust.
I have no idea if he'll bust or not. But I do know that if he doesn't improve his power, he'll bust in the majors.
But his lack of Ks give coaches a strong foundation on which to develop him...if they do it right. Kind of like Moncada and his eye.
I donít think thatís a bust at all. A solid major league player who plays gold glove caliber defense at second base, puts the ball in play, and steals a lot of bases, is not a bust. Maybe thatís a ďdisappointment,Ē but itís not a bust. A bust is a high draft pick who just canít cut it as a major league starter, like Courtney Hawkins.
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  #51  
Old 04-26-2019, 07:25 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
I donít think thatís a bust at all. A solid major league player who plays gold glove caliber defense at second base, puts the ball in play, and steals a lot of bases, is not a bust. Maybe thatís a ďdisappointment,Ē but itís not a bust. A bust is a high draft pick who just canít cut it as a major league starter, like Courtney Hawkins.
Semantics
.700 OPS isn't even a starting caliber player....if the goal is to win.
  #52  
Old 04-26-2019, 07:49 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Semantics
.700 OPS isn't even a starting caliber player....if the goal is to win.
If the player brings gold glove defense to the middle infield, rarely strikes out and therefore is advancing runners, and when on base he steals a lot of bases and takes a lot of extra bases, thereís significant value that doesnít show up in the OPS.

I agree you canít have a team filled with this kind of player, but on a future club projected to have 20+ HR power at your other three middle of the field positions (Collins, Robert, and Anderson), you can deal with a lack of power from your gold glove caliber second baseman who is probably going to hit .300+, rarely strike out, and steal 25+ bases.
  #53  
Old 04-26-2019, 08:22 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
If the player brings gold glove defense to the middle infield, rarely strikes out and therefore is advancing runners, and when on base he steals a lot of bases and takes a lot of extra bases, there’s significant value that doesn’t show up in the OPS.

I agree you can’t have a team filled with this kind of player, but on a future club projected to have 20+ HR power at your other three middle of the field positions (Collins, Robert, and Anderson), you can deal with a lack of power from your gold glove caliber second baseman who is probably going to hit .300+, rarely strike out, and steal 25+ bases.
Even in the "best light" as you portray above, that's still basically a team's worst starter, and not a good return for the #4 pick in the draft. Especially for a team that has already blown (apparently) several high picks.

On another note, Mendick bears watching. Winners aren't built on blue-chip prospects alone.
Yes, AAA pitching is spotty, but if Cordell and my man Delmonico get chances, why not this guy? The Sox have got to hit on one of these types at some point, don't they?
  #54  
Old 04-26-2019, 08:45 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
On another note, Mendick bears watching. Winners aren't built on blue-chip prospects alone.
Yes, AAA pitching is spotty, but if Cordell and my man Delmonico get chances, why not this guy? The Sox have got to hit on one of these types at some point, don't they?
It's not that Mendick wasn't a blue-chip prospect. It's that he's never appeared to be more than organizational filler at any point in his career, other than a few weeks during spring training. If you're not okay with a gold-glove caliber 2B hitting at a .700 OPS in MLB, how do you feel about a less defensively talented 2B hitting at a .735 OPS in AA? Because that's what Mendick did last year, and that was right in line with his career to that point. This year he's hitting .250 with an .823 OPS at AAA, which is an improvement, but it's a small sample and it's not so much of an improvement that you ignore the past 4 years of mediocre play.
  #55  
Old 04-26-2019, 09:05 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Even in the "best light" as you portray above, that's still basically a team's worst starter, and not a good return for the #4 pick in the draft. Especially for a team that has already blown (apparently) several high picks.

On another note, Mendick bears watching. Winners aren't built on blue-chip prospects alone.
Yes, AAA pitching is spotty, but if Cordell and my man Delmonico get chances, why not this guy? The Sox have got to hit on one of these types at some point, don't they?
Any starter from the #4 pick is an okay return. This expectation that every single top 5 pick (or wherever you draw the line) should be a guaranteed All Star caliber player is simply poor logic and does not match the history of baseball drafting in ANY WAY.
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  #56  
Old 04-26-2019, 09:32 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Yes, AAA pitching is spotty, but if Cordell and my man Delmonico get chances, why not this guy? The Sox have got to hit on one of these types at some point, don't they?
Because Mendick is late round, organizational filler type. He's never shown to be anything but a minor league journeyman except when he feasted on A ball pitching in Spring Training.
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  #57  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:17 AM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Any starter from the #4 pick is an okay return. This expectation that every single top 5 pick (or wherever you draw the line) should be a guaranteed All Star caliber player is simply poor logic and does not match the history of baseball drafting in ANY WAY.
The thought process there is drafting for a floor vs looking for high ceiling.

When you draft in the top 5, you better be scouting an absolute superstar. If he doesn't develop into one, then fine (which is mostly the case). But at the time of drafting you need to make sure your scouts are telling you that guy will project into a superstar 5 years down the line.
  #58  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:42 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Even in the "best light" as you portray above, that's still basically a team's worst starter, and not a good return for the #4 pick in the draft. Especially for a team that has already blown (apparently) several high picks.

On another note, Mendick bears watching. Winners aren't built on blue-chip prospects alone.
Yes, AAA pitching is spotty, but if Cordell and my man Delmonico get chances, why not this guy? The Sox have got to hit on one of these types at some point, don't they?
No team’s worst starter produces that well.
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  #59  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
The thought process there is drafting for a floor vs looking for high ceiling.

When you draft in the top 5, you better be scouting an absolute superstar. If he doesn't develop into one, then fine (which is mostly the case). But at the time of drafting you need to make sure your scouts are telling you that guy will project into a superstar 5 years down the line.
And the Sox did, but the simple fact is that historically speaking any starter from any slot in the draft is a solid outcome. Whether players reach their superstar potential is based on so many factors it probably cannot be modeled statistically and if it could, every team would be using that model and there would be no draft busts and the draft could probably be shortened to 10 rounds or less.
  #60  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
The thought process there is drafting for a floor vs looking for high ceiling.

When you draft in the top 5, you better be scouting an absolute superstar. If he doesn't develop into one, then fine (which is mostly the case). But at the time of drafting you need to make sure your scouts are telling you that guy will project into a superstar 5 years down the line.
What you are saying is true. The post you quoted is also true.
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