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  #121  
Old 10-09-2018, 02:10 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish
Personally, it brought back too many harsh memories of the Rangers winning multiple championships with A-Rod and rubbing it in the faces of the White Sox, who were unable to contend in the mid-2000's because of an inability to sign free agents.
I never said that signing big-money free agents was the right thing to do, nor did I say that avoiding them was the wrong thing to do. What I said was that the White Sox bid on Alex Rodriguez was not a legitimately competitive bid. I am not prepared to allow people to use that bid, or the Albert Belle signing, or the Adam Dunn signing, as proof in some revisionist history that the White Sox have always been willing to spend money to field a competitive team. The ARod bid was laughably short, the Albert Belle signing was over two decades ago and was voided when the team refused to pony up the extra few million to negate the opt-out clause, and the Adam Dunn signing was only 5th in total dollars and 7th in AAV in that free agent class.

The fact remains that only the Indians and A's rank below the White Sox in terms of the largest contract handed out in franchise history.
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  #122  
Old 10-09-2018, 02:42 PM
Kilroy Kilroy is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
I've heard him do football, and thought he was quite good. It clearly doesn't translate to baseball (IMHO.) He spends way too much time trying to be funny (he's not) and will get obsessed with something stupid (like tee shirt jerseys) and prattle on about it for a couple of innings.

Matter of opinion.
I agree on this whole heartedly. I really enjoy Benetti doing a football game.

As for the "Shersey" discussion, he managed to sight one of our crew wearing one during our annual trip following the Sox on the road this year. Went on about it for a couple of minutes. People were texting us and sending videos of their TVs.

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Originally Posted by TDog View Post

I always quite enjoyed Tom Paciorek's color...
I agree here also. Wimpy does a great job, and I really enjoyed it when he showed up this season.

Was it just me, or did anyone else notice that Benetti was way WAY better with Paciorek in the booth than he was with Stone?

It was like night and day to me. When Wimpy was there, there was about 90% less of the inane nonsense that always seems to go on when he's with Stone. And when they did clown around a bit, it wasn't just stupid stuff, for lack of a better way to say it. So much better.
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  #123  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:25 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
1. What is a reasonable timeframe, in your opinion?


2. Which matters are people not holding Hahn accountable for? Better yet, how do we as fans hold anyone within the organization accountable when we literally have nothing to do with the day to day operations?


Also, you keep saying the Sox had a huge jump start with the players they traded. Well, jump start on what exactly? The players acquired were not ML ready. A few were close and have joined the team. Now they need to develop players, and unfortunately that is the part that takes time. Not every player develops at the same pace. Some players regress, some exceed and some just take longer than expected. So when you say jump start, what exactly does that mean? If your argument is going to be that they should have acquired more ML-ready talent when they traded those assets then ok, I can understand that. But that's not the direction they took.
I tend to agree with all these comments.

(1) Reasonable time frame has to be reasonable. When you have a guy like Moncada, You have to know there is going to be some struggle because you get to the potential. He is who he is. He may never reach the ceiling. If he does not, then Hahn lost the trade unless Kopech hits his. If Kopech and Moncada come close to their Ceilings, then we won that trade.

(2) People are not holding Hahn accountable because we are in about the lowest point we can be in of the rebuild. We had, easily, one of the best, if not THE BEST, first years of a rebuild in MLB history. We acquired so much depth. but can we be realistic too. If we have 9 top 100 arms - odds are 3 end up SP and 1 in the pen, and that is a great result.

If you have 3 top 20 bats, Maybe 1 works out, 1 becomes decent.

Prospects in baseball are more volatile than any sport out there.

So if you walk out of this Rebuild and you have your ace and 3 rotation arms, you have your half a lineup including your best hitter (Eloy)... I think it is a success.

Lets just say we are judging success based on Cubs results, 3 straight NLCS a WS and a playoff quick exit.

Do they do any of that without also supplementing with major FA parts and trades? If you are generous, include Rizzo in the rebuild, but he was an MLB player when they got him. Do they go this far without Lester, Zobrist, Their closers, Heyward, Hamels, Quintana etc.
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  #124  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:30 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I tend to agree with all these comments.

(1) Reasonable time frame has to be reasonable. When you have a guy like Moncada, You have to know there is going to be some struggle because you get to the potential. He is who he is. He may never reach the ceiling. If he does not, then Hahn lost the trade unless Kopech hits his. If Kopech and Moncada come close to their Ceilings, then we won that trade.

(2) People are not holding Hahn accountable because we are in about the lowest point we can be in of the rebuild. We had, easily, one of the best, if not THE BEST, first years of a rebuild in MLB history. We acquired so much depth. but can we be realistic too. If we have 9 top 100 arms - odds are 3 end up SP and 1 in the pen, and that is a great result.

If you have 3 top 20 bats, Maybe 1 works out, 1 becomes decent.

Prospects in baseball are more volatile than any sport out there.

So if you walk out of this Rebuild and you have your ace and 3 rotation arms, you have your half a lineup including your best hitter (Eloy)... I think it is a success.

Lets just say we are judging success based on Cubs results, 3 straight NLCS a WS and a playoff quick exit.

Do they do any of that without also supplementing with major FA parts and trades? If you are generous, include Rizzo in the rebuild, but he was an MLB player when they got him. Do they go this far without Lester, Zobrist, Their closers, Heyward, Hamels, Quintana etc.
As always it will come down to $$$. Will JR spend it? Will any quality free agent's (not second rate has been's) actually take it on the "promise" that things work out in the end?

We'll see.
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  #125  
Old 10-09-2018, 04:13 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
As always it will come down to $$$. Will JR spend it? Will any quality free agent's (not second rate has been's) actually take it on the "promise" that things work out in the end?

We'll see.
Was it the world series DVD where Selig and JR are having lunch and JR admits he likes to find guys like Dye who were good and coming off bad years?
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  #126  
Old 10-09-2018, 04:51 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
The fact remains that only the Indians and A's rank below the White Sox in terms of the largest contract handed out in franchise history.
...and yet, both of those teams were in the playoffs this year. I guess money can't buy you love.
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  #127  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:47 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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...and yet, both of those teams were in the playoffs this year. I guess money can't buy you love.
That's where good front offices come into play. But money still is a very important factor in the success of an organization...certainly not the only reason but it is important.
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  #128  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:21 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
The key need for the Sox is to develop 4-5 young studs. The Sox had a huge jumpstart with Sale, Eaton and Q to trade.
That's what the FO needs to deliver...then supplement. (of course if they can sign one of the elite guys, then fantastic). And within a reasonable timeframe (And yes I understand that many believe that it is unfair to hold Rick Hahn accountable for these matters).
The first 2/3 of this sounded reasonable, until you threw fellow fans under the bus again. Dear lord, just give it a ****ing rest already. It's beyond old to hear you constantly accuse "many" fans of giving Hahn a free pass. That may be what you "understand", but it doesn't make it true.



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  #129  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:28 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
I never said that signing big-money free agents was the right thing to do, nor did I say that avoiding them was the wrong thing to do. What I said was that the White Sox bid on Alex Rodriguez was not a legitimately competitive bid. I am not prepared to allow people to use that bid, or the Albert Belle signing, or the Adam Dunn signing, as proof in some revisionist history that the White Sox have always been willing to spend money to field a competitive team. The ARod bid was laughably short, the Albert Belle signing was over two decades ago and was voided when the team refused to pony up the extra few million to negate the opt-out clause, and the Adam Dunn signing was only 5th in total dollars and 7th in AAV in that free agent class.

The fact remains that only the Indians and A's rank below the White Sox in terms of the largest contract handed out in franchise history.
Valid points. I too remember the BS they spun about making a bid for A-Rod. They were right to not pay crazy money for him, but I resented what seemed to me like KW bull****ting us fans.

.....that being said, that doesn't mean they won't be players this time around. In those other free agent situations, did the Sox have so little committed to payroll for the next few years? They have loads of payroll flexibility right now. That doesn't mean I think they should or will sign one of the elite guys, but it might be apples and oranges to the A-Rod and Dunn situations.
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  #130  
Old 10-09-2018, 08:07 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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I think the Sox will go all in on Machado. They telegraphed it last offseason. The Sox are not going to be a sexy destination, but I think they may well offer the most money.

Why Machado, when they haven't gone after the top free agents before? He's unusually young for a free agent, only a year older than Tim Anderson. He should be a middle-of-the-order hitter for the next five years, which takes them well into their contention window. He plays our biggest position of need (third) or perhaps solves it by bumping Anderson there. He's been durable. And he will bring credibility to the rebuild, helping them sign more free agents.

Can the Sox spend the most money? Absolutely. They have no long-term commitments and no luxury tax problems.

(Sorry, Bryce Harper fans. The Sox will save their resources because they have a bumper crop of outfielders on the way.)
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  #131  
Old 10-09-2018, 09:01 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I think the Sox will go all in on Machado. They telegraphed it last offseason. The Sox are not going to be a sexy destination, but I think they may well offer the most money.

Why Machado, when they haven't gone after the top free agents before? He's unusually young for a free agent, only a year older than Tim Anderson. He should be a middle-of-the-order hitter for the next five years, which takes them well into their contention window. He plays our biggest position of need (third) or perhaps solves it by bumping Anderson there. He's been durable. And he will bring credibility to the rebuild, helping them sign more free agents.

Can the Sox spend the most money? Absolutely. They have no long-term commitments and no luxury tax problems.

(Sorry, Bryce Harper fans. The Sox will save their resources because they have a bumper crop of outfielders on the way.)
I personally think that Machado to the Yankees is a formality. Harper is the wild card. Will the Sox want to spend that kind of money on him when they're absolutely loaded with OF prospects?
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  #132  
Old 10-09-2018, 09:43 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986 View Post
I personally think that Machado to the Yankees is a formality. Harper is the wild card. Will the Sox want to spend that kind of money on him when they're absolutely loaded with OF prospects?
I won't say zero chance, but it would be stupid in a way that this front office isn't stupid.
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  #133  
Old 10-10-2018, 08:02 AM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Originally Posted by XplodingScorbord View Post
Welcome to baseball announcing. Itís a relatively relaxed game with about 500 hours of time to fill each season. What the hell is anyone going to talk about for 500 hours? Every pitched ball doesnít need to be dissected, so there is lots and lots (and lots) of time to get off on tangents.
Thatís a fair point. On the other hand, when I watch games on MLB from different markets through the year, the goofiness doesnít exist in other booths, certainly not to the degree weíve seen here. Dave Sims in Seattle is a great example. The Astros booth with Blum and Kalas is great too.
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  #134  
Old 10-10-2018, 09:15 AM
TomC727 TomC727 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Thatís a fair point. On the other hand, when I watch games on MLB from different markets through the year, the goofiness doesnít exist in other booths, certainly not to the degree weíve seen here. Dave Sims in Seattle is a great example. The Astros booth with Blum and Kalas is great too.
Blum and Kalas are top notch.
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  #135  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:40 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I think there is ZERO chance we land a premier FA. Machado wants the spotlight and he won't get that here. I don't see the Sox offering Harper so much more money he turns down the Yanks or Nats or Cubs.

I could see us going big on Patrick Corbin, and then being in the mix for a bunch of 2nd tier guys.

If Kenny gets involved, don't rule out a trade for Zack Grienke.
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